tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post114553846272311375..comments2023-10-20T05:48:35.458-04:00Comments on THE ATHEIST JEW: Discussing Israel With Far Left Atheists Is Like Discussing Evolution With A YECUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger42125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1146510076060911262006-05-01T15:01:00.000-04:002006-05-01T15:01:00.000-04:00"Israel is placed on a higher plateau by those who..."Israel is placed on a higher plateau by those who hate Jews its seems."<BR/><BR/>Anonymous must hate Jews, then. He wrote this after all:<BR/>"Israel is morally superior to most nations of the world."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1146489967816688202006-05-01T09:26:00.000-04:002006-05-01T09:26:00.000-04:00Andrew, Israel is placed on a higher plateau by th...Andrew, Israel is placed on a higher plateau by those who hate Jews its seems.<BR/>Israel is supposed to be perfect it seems. No country is.<BR/><BR/>Israel has made mistakes like all countries on this planet. The Palestinians have made nothing but mistakes.<BR/><BR/>Thanks snoopy.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1146489486613862832006-05-01T09:18:00.000-04:002006-05-01T09:18:00.000-04:00More of an American leftist tendency than an Aust...More of an American leftist tendency than an Australian leftist tendency, I suspect. Don't know for sure. I know that white Africans here are hated on sight, very often -- doesn't matter if you're left or right.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15364161667997825733noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1146477910988108902006-05-01T06:05:00.000-04:002006-05-01T06:05:00.000-04:00I like my moonbat better:http://static.flickr.com/...I like my moonbat better:<BR/><BR/>http://static.flickr.com/33/93472430_aefd58b0be_m.jpg<BR/><BR/>You are welcome to it, if you do too.<BR/>Nice place you have got here, blogrolling you right now.<BR/><BR/>Cheers.SnoopyTheGoonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00920565522498918323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1146465194596673362006-05-01T02:33:00.000-04:002006-05-01T02:33:00.000-04:00"The geographics and continuation is different in ..."The geographics and continuation is different in the West Bank. Evacuating all the settlements will bring 2 million Arabs whose majority voted for Israel's extinction closer to 5 million Jews."<BR/><BR/>Demagoguery is a game two can play. When Likud came to power in the late 70's, Israelis elected a party dedicated to the destruction of Jordan. Begin was leader of Herut, a Likud faction that considers Jordan part of Eretz Israel. Does that mean Israelis really want to invade Jordan, or that they deserve whatever they get?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1146464174445173682006-05-01T02:16:00.000-04:002006-05-01T02:16:00.000-04:00You just answered your own question, anonymous. P...You just answered your own question, anonymous. People like myself are tired of seeing Israel on a moral high-ground it does not deserve.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145842275284759512006-04-23T21:31:00.000-04:002006-04-23T21:31:00.000-04:00"I'm just saying I can see where the anti-Israel p..."I'm just saying I can see where the anti-Israel people are coming from, and it's not necessarily anti-semitism."<BR/>.............<BR/>Well I don't see where they are coming from and there are no reasons to hate Israel unless one is a complete biggot. Give me the reasons anyone should hate Israel. And please don't give me that garbage about things they have done. Israel is morally superior to most nations of the world. There is no justification for singling out Israel for scrutiny and hatred.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145672947787817482006-04-21T22:29:00.000-04:002006-04-21T22:29:00.000-04:00Steve, I don't know if Israel is safer if they lef...Steve, I don't know if Israel is safer if they left the West Bank. I used to think so, I don't anymore. I don't know if the benefits outweigh the costs.<BR/><BR/>Gaza was a no brainer. Only 8500 people to evacuate. And they were surrounded by 1 million Arabs.<BR/><BR/>The geographics and continuation is different in the West Bank. Evacuating all the settlements will bring 2 million Arabs whose majority voted for Israel's extinction closer to 5 million Jews.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145663141802553442006-04-21T19:45:00.000-04:002006-04-21T19:45:00.000-04:00Lya Kahlo: I don't think what I said was a Straw M...<B>Lya Kahlo</B>: I don't think what I said was a Straw Man at all. But I guess we won't agree on that.<BR/><BR/><I>"Oh please. Don't insult my intellegence and integrity and then try to play nice. Talk about not being consistent."</I><BR/><BR/>You can throw it back in my face if you like, but I'm not insulting you—neither your intelligence nor your integrity (?)—by any stretch of the imagination. I was sincerely thanking you for your constructive work over there, which is a hell of a lot more than most people do. <BR/><BR/>You could only view my compliment as inconsistent if you believe that one must be enemies with those who they disagree with and concede them nothing. Thankfully, I don't feel this way. So it's not inconsistent at all for me to disagree with something you've written, yet respect you as a person or appreciate things that you've done.<BR/><BR/>Take it or leave it, doesn't make a difference to me.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145653907990626452006-04-21T17:11:00.000-04:002006-04-21T17:11:00.000-04:00Again Stevo you miss the point. The Palestinians ...Again Stevo you miss the point. The Palestinians have had many offers and turned them all down, from 1948 on.<BR/><BR/>When the Gaza withdrawal happened they had an opportunity to condemn terror and work on a state and show sincerity in that direction. Not only did they send missiles, they voted in Hamas who stated ahead of time that their ultimate goal is the destruction of Israel.<BR/><BR/>Do you get it yet?Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145651030732324792006-04-21T16:23:00.000-04:002006-04-21T16:23:00.000-04:00What a detailed and complete entry.. and to add va...What a detailed and complete entry.. and to add value to its existence. I agree. Except I reached my conclusion based on which religion do I find more socially acceptable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145645694319170812006-04-21T14:54:00.000-04:002006-04-21T14:54:00.000-04:00I was for the Gaza pullout Steve. On the basis th...I was for the Gaza pullout Steve. On the basis that it was costly, would show the world and Palis a good gesture, make Israel safer.<BR/>The Palis did exactly what I expected. They have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Now I see no reason to spend mega cash retreating from medium sized cities in the West Bank. Keep the larger settlements and make a defendable border around all of Israel and then Israel should wash its hands of the Palestinians, and with each inevitable attack, carpet bomb them as any attack would be an internation act of war once Israel draws the final borders.<BR/><BR/>The ball is the Palis court, but they are running out of time to change this plan.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145620395307425062006-04-21T07:53:00.000-04:002006-04-21T07:53:00.000-04:00GLO, I hate terrorists. Radical Islam needs to be...GLO, I hate terrorists. Radical Islam needs to be removed. For me, sure I have a bias because I'm a Jew, but I hate terrorists plain and simple more than I love Jews.<BR/>I admit it, I hate someone who made a delusional moron strap on a suicide bomb more than I hate the bomber and more than I love Jews.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145580080838425452006-04-20T20:41:00.000-04:002006-04-20T20:41:00.000-04:00Fatah had a terrorist past, and no motto to destro...Fatah had a terrorist past, and no motto to destroy Israel. A distinction should have been made, and was by me, that the Fatah under Arafat were terrorist, but the post Arafat Fatah was negotiating successfully with Israel.<BR/>Political parties do change, but Hamas was clear going into the election that their goal is the destruction of Israel.<BR/><BR/>Sorry, but I don't buy the corruption crapola. And you can explain why this month 54% of Palestinians still support suicide bombings.<BR/><BR/>I don't see Hamas changing. I see them dying though.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145577987010966552006-04-20T20:06:00.000-04:002006-04-20T20:06:00.000-04:00Bacon, you're talking as if Fatah did not also sup...Bacon, you're talking as if Fatah did not also support terrorism—the very link you gave earlier displays Fatah's support of terrorism (scroll down). These people were given a choice between terrorists and terrorists, and you're complaining that they elected terrorists. Nothing would satisfy you.<BR/><BR/>Well, Fatah was corrupt and incompetent and they were sick of it. Hamas could end up being good leadership eventually, we'll have to see. It's not like it would be the first time when terrorists became rulers (Israel itself was birthed with the assistance of Jewish terrorist groups, some of whom went on to lead the new nation). <BR/><BR/>They obviously cannot just go around blowing themselves up anymore now that they have been given some sort of legitimacy. They have to take running a government seriously. I can condemn their past actions, but as far as them being in control now and having actual responsibility, they'll have to change or die.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145573967734971212006-04-20T18:59:00.000-04:002006-04-20T18:59:00.000-04:00Leopetr, I don't buy it. Sorry. 54% voted for Ha...Leopetr, I don't buy it. Sorry. 54% voted for Hamas and in a recent survey 54 % support suicide bombings.<BR/><BR/>the gaza withdrawal happened under Fatah, if I was a Palestinian and I wanted a state I wouldn't have hesitated and voted for Fatah. But sadly, that isn't the case.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145570801306360792006-04-20T18:06:00.000-04:002006-04-20T18:06:00.000-04:00As an Atheist, it wouldn't bother me if Israel was...As an Atheist, it wouldn't bother me if Israel was in Uganda. But Judaism does exist.<BR/><BR/>When I look at Law of Return, I interpret it as the Law that allows me to go to Israel if the Canadian gov't decides to kill Jews.<BR/><BR/>It is an exageration I know, but the Jews in Europe in the 30's thought that the idea of murdering Jews was a joke.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145570582030821332006-04-20T18:03:00.000-04:002006-04-20T18:03:00.000-04:00Anyone can sum anything up in such an oversimplifi...Anyone can sum anything up in such an oversimplification—it's so devoid of detail, context and information as to make it utterly useless for any practical purpose of discussion.<BR/><BR/>My point was that Arabs who desire to be a citizen in the Israeli state have historically been loyal to that state. I would presume that any Arab wishing to return to Israel would be checked out thoroughly. <BR/><BR/>Not that I think Return should be implemented, for either Jews or Arabs. I think both instances are silly, which is all I have been saying. You guys can't say that it's absurd for Arabs to claim 50 year-old land rights while saying that it's totally rational for Jews to be claiming 2,000 year-old land rights.<BR/><BR/>I mean, as an atheist, I'm sure you don't give two craps about the biblical claims to Israel, which is why you always gloss over all that and frame the creation of Israel solely as a necessary reaction to the Holocaust, but that's not even close to the whole story. But the whole Law of Return is based on biblical grounds, otherwise how can I, descended as I am from German Jewry, "return" to Israel? I'm an American of European ancestry. I'm not Middle Eastern.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145568596954438572006-04-20T17:29:00.000-04:002006-04-20T17:29:00.000-04:00guav, yes I reduced into short sentences. But tha...guav, yes I reduced into short sentences. But that is how it is summed up.<BR/>I'm not talking about Israeli Arabs I'm talking about ROR for Palestinians. No chance.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145568507626017592006-04-20T17:28:00.000-04:002006-04-20T17:28:00.000-04:00JA, again I asked outside of humanity, what have t...JA, again I asked outside of humanity, what have the Palestinians done in the way of action or desires to make me sympathize with them, any of them?<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.pmw.org.il/Latest%20bulletins%20new.htm" REL="nofollow">Here is what they teach the kiddies</A>. I see no hope, and I see no reason to give the Palestinians anything.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145567721497105232006-04-20T17:15:00.000-04:002006-04-20T17:15:00.000-04:00I'm not faulting the theory or goals of pacifism, ...I'm not faulting the theory or goals of pacifism, I just don't think it's a terribly realistic philosophy—it only works if everyone is a pacifist. <BR/><BR/>Didn't Ghandi and Dr. Martin Luther King ... like ... get <I>shot</I>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145564205423242132006-04-20T16:16:00.000-04:002006-04-20T16:16:00.000-04:00BEAJ:JA, I've said it over again, the settlements ...BEAJ:<BR/><BR/><I>JA, I've said it over again, the settlements were a mistake. But mistakes happen, now there are small cities in the west bank.<BR/>Leaving them would cost billions of dollars.<BR/>and where do you put 200,000 people?</I><BR/><BR/>Well, they might have to just bite the bullet and do it. A swiss-cheesed Palestine that's divided by Israeli-patrolled roads with checkpoints is going to keep stirring the hatred.<BR/><BR/><I>I don't have any empathy left for the Palestinians. Can you give me one reason based on their actions or desires to feel sorry for them?</I><BR/><BR/>You talk as if the Palestinians think with one mind. Can you feel empathy for those non-terrorists who have lost civilian loved ones in military actions? Can you feel sorry for those just trying to scrape out a living who have to wait for hours every day and face possible abuse at random check points? Can you feel sorry for those who used to live minutes from loved ones who are now hours away due to checkpoints? Can you feel sorry for those whose livelihoods were made inside Israeli cities who can no longer consistently get to work?<BR/><BR/>They're not all terrorists.Jewish Atheisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04616617537150446818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145562400216151252006-04-20T15:46:00.000-04:002006-04-20T15:46:00.000-04:00For the record, I think:1. Israel should withdraw ...For the record, I think:<BR/><BR/>1. Israel should withdraw <I>completely</I> to the 1967 borders. Totally.<BR/><BR/>2. Not grant a right of return to the Palestinians to Israel proper. It's not gonna happen. Period.<BR/><BR/>3. The settlers should be told they have the option of being resettled within Israel's border or taking their chances on their own. Maintaining and protecting the settlements is <I>hurting Israel</I>, in many ways. If they want to be religious fundamentalists, let them. But the rest of Israel should not suffer because of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145560847485175202006-04-20T15:20:00.000-04:002006-04-20T15:20:00.000-04:00Rules? There are rules? Who made them?See, I thoug...Rules? There are rules? Who made them?<BR/><BR/>See, I thought we were discussing how silly the concept of ancient land rights were. Either they are or they are not. Pick one. We don't just get to say "The rules are what I say they are—European Jews can "return" to land they haven't inhabited for 2,000 years but for Arab Muslims to want to return to land they lived on 60 years ago is a ridiculous idea." That's irrational and totally hypocritical. I can "return" to Israel. <I><B>I</B></I> don't have a deed.<BR/><BR/><I>"The fact is that most of Palestine was barren. Nobody had to be displaced. Palestinians were given bad advice and left."</I><BR/><BR/>One hundred years of incredibly rich and intricate regional history in three short sentences? Come on.<BR/><BR/><I>"Arabs have proved that they can't be trusted to move back to Israel in sufficient numbers."</I> <BR/><BR/>How so? Israeli Arabs have generally behaved as loyal citizens. During the 1967, 1973 and 1982 wars, none engaged in any acts of sabotage or disloyalty. I'm not saying that Arabs should be allowed to return unrestricted to Israel proper—I don't think refugee's descendents should be allowed to return—I'm just saying the concept is not nearly as far-fetched as the Law of Return. <BR/><BR/><I>"I you had a family and you owned a duplex where you lived in the bottom half of it, would you rent out the top half of your duplex to a convicted child molester because his grandfather used to rent that house 50 years ago?"</I><BR/><BR/>No, but I'd rent it to a farmer. Or a truck driver. Or a storeowner. Or construction worker. What kind of question is that?<BR/><BR/>And you know as well as I do that Zionism long predates the Holocaust. It was not a reaction to the Holocaust. The formation of the Jewish state in Palestine was a goal regardless of whether or not the Holocaust had occurred. And the early Zionists understood very well that this was not going to be accepted by the current inhabitants and that they were going to have to be displaced. Early Zionist writings are very clear on this, and David Ben-Gurion and others from the time Israel was officially formed were extremely frank about this.<BR/><BR/>"<I>I've said it over again, the settlements were a mistake.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Yes, and "mistakes" like that have actual consequences and results, and shape how things play out over there. They <I>affect</I> people. They continue to affect people.<BR/><BR/><I>"Gaza happened and they still voted Hamas."</I><BR/><BR/>Their alternative was what, give Fatah another turn? It's not like they had a choice between two sterling, fantastic leaders like George W. Bush and John Kerry haha. Some people have to choose between crap and crap—not everyone has the wide variety of fine leaders that we have to select from here :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1145558479505140002006-04-20T14:41:00.000-04:002006-04-20T14:41:00.000-04:00JA, I've said it over again, the settlements were ...JA, I've said it over again, the settlements were a mistake. But mistakes happen, now there are small cities in the west bank.<BR/>Leaving them would cost billions of dollars.<BR/>and where do you put 200,000 people?<BR/><BR/>I just say financial compensation and possible land swaps if possible and getting out of the smaller settlements.<BR/>But even so, it won't be enough.<BR/><BR/>Gaza happened and they still voted Hamas.<BR/><BR/>I don't have any empathy left for the Palestinians. Can you give me one reason based on their actions or desires to feel sorry for them?Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.com