tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post286594782420801196..comments2023-10-20T05:48:35.458-04:00Comments on THE ATHEIST JEW: Global Warming: What "They" Don't Want Us To KnowUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-86592040880436990132007-04-18T09:04:00.000-04:002007-04-18T09:04:00.000-04:00If the issue of global climate change remains part...If the issue of global climate change remains party political - there is little chance of anyone looking at the information without a jaudiced eye.beepbeepitsmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931640447011071849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-67644130079812786252007-04-18T02:36:00.000-04:002007-04-18T02:36:00.000-04:00That's a good point about Al Gore and the Internet...That's a good point about Al Gore and the Internet. If he'd claim that he'd claim anything!AngloAmerikanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02002362092073890146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-23084446264336095402007-04-18T00:50:00.000-04:002007-04-18T00:50:00.000-04:00Global Warming is just another belief system. Al G...Global Warming is just another belief system. Al Gore made global warming in his image, which is basically a lot of hot air.<BR/><BR/>Unlike the impossibility of proving or disproving the existence of God, it is quite simple to disprove man-caused global warming, and on the other hand, to prove that global warming is natural.<BR/><BR/>For the first proof, the Holocene Climate Maximum of 9000 to 5000 years ago, and the Medieval Warm Period of 1000 years ago, were both warmer than the current period, or even the expected warming this century. Of course, there was no man-made CO2 of any significance in those earlier warmer periods.<BR/><BR/>During the past century, the temperature went up the most in the first half of the century, and actually went down from 1940 to 1980 even as CO2 rose steadily.<BR/><BR/>What does this all mean? Simply, that there are other factors that drive global temperature changes that are more important than CO2, such as solar and orbital variations.<BR/><BR/>Visit my web site "Strong as an ox & Etc." and click on the "global warming" label for a feast of man-caused global warming skepticism.<BR/><BR/>I am not a global warming "denier," because there is abundant evidence that the Earth has cooled and warmed hundreds of times before from natural causes.<BR/><BR/>Or maybe God did it, His glory and wonders to behold, and now insignificant man is trying to hog the credit.<BR/><BR/>First Al Gore claimed the Internet, then man-made global warming. What next? Sliced bagels?Major Combshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06581635770370383975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-62603895296772018192007-04-17T20:52:00.000-04:002007-04-17T20:52:00.000-04:00angloThe loop of ritualized belief also concerns m...anglo<BR/><BR/>The loop of ritualized belief also concerns me. Except that I see it from the other perspective. I see it as potentially a belief that mankind cannot and does not have the power to influence global climate change and that therefore more human action of a similar kind will NOT effect the result. <BR/><BR/>The aztec example is one I often use myself to describe how the ritualized behaviour or belief instead of being part of the solution, maybe part of the problem.beepbeepitsmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931640447011071849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-17838545679793337532007-04-17T14:03:00.000-04:002007-04-17T14:03:00.000-04:00IF GW is natural and the earth warms and cools of ...IF GW is natural and the earth warms and cools of its own accord but humans believe it is unnatural and caused by humans and take action then when the Earth cools the cooling will be attributed to the action taken. Similar to the Aztecs who ripped out human hearts to ensure that the sun would rise in the morning. The sun rose so the action was justified.<BR/><BR/>Now I was looking forward to oil running out and am a keen cyclist and fitness freak so I am into saving the environment and everything. What I am concerned about and interested in is how we can avoid the loop described above. Does anyone have any ideas?AngloAmerikanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02002362092073890146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-28795570852265175672007-04-16T20:14:00.000-04:002007-04-16T20:14:00.000-04:00anglo:I don't see any economic system or the resul...anglo:<BR/><BR/>I don't see any economic system or the results of any economic system as being perfect, so I don't have a problem with the concept that our actions probably contribute to global climate change.<BR/><BR/>I don't have a huge psychological investment in free market capitalism. Any system which works well and that provides the most freedom for the most people is ok by me. But, and now I will sound like my parents - with freedom comes responsibility and I am not convinced that economic models factor environmental responsibility into their game plan highly enough. <BR/><BR/>There is also the concern for me, at least, that rampant materialism, which I equate with the concept of free market capitalism, may also have its down side. The downside may be excessively damaging levels of pollution.<BR/><BR/>All systems have their downside and global climate change may just be the downside of such a system. <BR/><BR/>I have always been concerned about our lack of care towards the environment in which we live. That we may in fact be "shitting in the only nest" we have, hasn't escaped my thoughts.<BR/><BR/>China's economic model certainly didn't prove to be perfect either, but as I said, I am not a believer that any economic or social model is.beepbeepitsmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931640447011071849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-71262080130391549642007-04-16T16:32:00.000-04:002007-04-16T16:32:00.000-04:00Jonny, I don't think anyone here is saying Global ...Jonny, I don't think anyone here is saying Global Warming isn't happening and that man isn't having a hand in it.<BR/>What is up for debate is how much man is behind it.<BR/>Just like in evolution, there is no doubt what happened, but there are many questions how and when specific changes occurred.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-22789120086101589112007-04-16T15:50:00.000-04:002007-04-16T15:50:00.000-04:00To me, anthropogenic global warming denial is the ...To me, anthropogenic global warming denial is the same as evolution denial. You can always find a few scientists to back up the wrong side.<BR/><BR/>I don't listen to celebrities (like Michael Crichton) or politicians (Al Gore) when it comes to scientific issues, I listen to scientists, such as the 1000+ scientists that have written the latest <A HREF="http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/02/the-ipcc-fourth-assessment-summary-for-policy-makers/" REL="nofollow">IPCC report</A>. To me, that's a scientific consensus. If you ever want to disagree with such a strong scientific consensus, you better have extraordinary evidence to back up your extraordinary claim.<BR/><BR/>Finding small anomalies here and there doesn't cut it.Jonathan Abramshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10822775953941941191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-15955778556296281872007-04-16T15:34:00.000-04:002007-04-16T15:34:00.000-04:00gert,"You looking for eyeballs again?"And all I fo...gert,<BR/><BR/>"You looking for eyeballs again?"<BR/><BR/>And all I found was an arsehole!The Sentinelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18407669804421969164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-69035970238841796742007-04-16T13:51:00.000-04:002007-04-16T13:51:00.000-04:00The point I am trying to make is that draconian la...The point I am trying to make is that draconian laws that severely affect productivity and human freedom may be enacted to counter what may be natural changes in weather conditions. Dissenters may be punished. Human beings have succumbed time and again to this sort of behaviour with dire consequences for the individual. I have often pondered what made a huge nation like China descend into collective madness for a generation and suspect that it was because a lot of the people bought into the economic theories of the communists. Even today I encounter people who think that distribution of wealth and socialism are good ideas, at least in theory. Collective madness is a germ that lies dormant in the population yet is ready to go ballistic at any time.<BR/><BR/>Climate has been changing for eons. It was much colder in Europe in the recent past as well as much warmer when the Romans ruled the world. No one seems to talk about the ice ages and mini ice ages anymore yet they clearly occurred and are scheduled to occur again or so I was told. It is possible that GW will counter an ice age and that would be a good thing. GW will also make some places more habitable and productive.<BR/><BR/>Humans also have a fascination with apocalypse. Throughout human history there has always been a current theory of impending apocalypse that captures the popular imagination.AngloAmerikanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02002362092073890146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-1797634823878001842007-04-16T11:22:00.000-04:002007-04-16T11:22:00.000-04:00Sentinel:You looking for eyeballs again?<B>Sentinel:</B><BR/><BR/>You looking for eyeballs again?Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-47126875453458650692007-04-16T10:53:00.000-04:002007-04-16T10:53:00.000-04:00Global climate change is happening whether people ...Global climate change is happening whether people accept that it is occurring through the actions of humans or not. The rate at which it is occurring and whether this can be ameleorated by human action are also issues of contention.<BR/><BR/> Some scientists have suggested that when a tipping point is reached that there will be no way that we will be able to extricate ourselves through human action. This is not to say that the human race is done for as I don't think that is the case, but that some massive changes will occur that will make some places distinctly less habitable for human beings.<BR/><BR/>As global climate change is happening anyway, regardles of what factors are attributed to it - there will be a certain level of hysteria whether politicians acknowledge its existence or not. That is, the results of global climate change will inevitably cause degrees of panic and hysteria. I see this as unavoidable. <BR/><BR/>What I do see as dangerous, is the head in the sand mentality - of this isn't happening and if it is, my lifestyle has nothing to do with it.beepbeepitsmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931640447011071849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-69930276570073535932007-04-16T04:59:00.000-04:002007-04-16T04:59:00.000-04:00I think a politician using shonky science to work ...I think a politician using shonky science to work out ways to get people to vote for him or her is not as frightening as genuine belief in shonky science by hordes of zealots. The Nazis and communists genuinely thought they were advancing the cause of real science. Both parties were willing to sacrifice millions on this alter to further their hysterical ideas on what they thought was best for mankind. Not many democratically elected politicians go this far but the whole MMGW thing has the potential to go critical and induce mass hysteria.AngloAmerikanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02002362092073890146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-84181813663358269272007-04-15T20:17:00.000-04:002007-04-15T20:17:00.000-04:00Oh, I missed the part about experts. I would be m...Oh, I missed the part about experts. I would be more likely to accept an expert's opinion than a politician. A politician is an expert at only working out ways to get people to vote for him or her.<BR/><BR/>If it came down to it. I am more likely to trust the experts associated with their specific scientific fields. Would I be more likely to trust a trained gynacologist's opinion about child birth over the guy who works at the packaging plant? Yup. <BR/><BR/>This doesn't mean that experts always get it right, but I consider that because of the scope and breadth of knowledge in a specific subject, that they make for a better amd nore reliable resource of information.beepbeepitsmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931640447011071849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-89780893756465441472007-04-15T20:11:00.000-04:002007-04-15T20:11:00.000-04:00angloamericanMany politicians will use shonky scie...angloamerican<BR/><BR/>Many politicians will use shonky science if they can get away with it. <BR/><BR/>The motivation might be all that is different.beepbeepitsmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931640447011071849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-5025749321246671722007-04-15T13:42:00.000-04:002007-04-15T13:42:00.000-04:00gert, "Fuck off, Sentipoop."Come on now, settle pe...gert, <BR/><BR/>"Fuck off, Sentipoop."<BR/><BR/>Come on now, settle petal.<BR/><BR/>No need for gratuitous profanity just because your cry for help fell on deaf ears.The Sentinelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18407669804421969164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-50535039481282441302007-04-15T13:37:00.000-04:002007-04-15T13:37:00.000-04:00I would prefer the so called "scaremongering" of e...<I>I would prefer the so called "scaremongering" of environmental scientists over the scaremongering of religious zealots anyday.</I><BR/><BR/>I’m not so sure. The Nazis and the communists of the USSR and Red China used science (shonky science) to oppress, enslave and starve millions of people. This is what I alluded to in my comment about green guards – a play on the term red guards. One day everyone will have to publicly confess that global warming is man made or be branded a denier. They'll have to wear it on their chests like a Chairman Mao badge.<BR/><BR/>I like jonney_eh’s notion that man can fix or adapt to most problems thrown at him. People need to have more faith in the creative power of humans. Remember nuclear winters? Maybe a few airburst atomic bombs over the Amazon jungle will pump enough soot in the air to cool things down a bit. Extreme I know but it might be worth considering in an emergency but I’m not a scientist, just a layman pondering using a winter to counter a warming.<BR/><BR/>I think it is important to have reasoned and sensible debate about the whole thing instead of accusing people of being in the pay of big oil or pushing a socialist agenda or of not being a ‘climate scientist’.<BR/><BR/><I>“We have not overthrown the divine right of kings to fall down for the divine right of experts.”<BR/>Harold Macmillan</I>AngloAmerikanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02002362092073890146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-84069697455296023432007-04-15T10:44:00.000-04:002007-04-15T10:44:00.000-04:00I'm convinced that human activity has and is havin...I'm convinced that human activity has and is having an impact on global climate.<BR/><BR/>Of course I am speaking from a place where we are now on level 5 water restrictions for the first time in the history of colonization. <BR/><BR/>My beloved Prime Minister believes that it is just part of the natural el nino effect and hence puts us in the same political boat with the US, but in sharp contrast with the rest of the world's opinion on the issue of global climate change.<BR/><BR/>Frankly, I have given up caring about it. <BR/><BR/>The one thing that still really bothers me about the issue is that global climate change, (if or when we feel some drastic and obvious effects from it), will only add to the fundamentalist religious mania.<BR/><BR/>We already have churches having "pray for rain services" (as if that is going to be productive), I would prefer it if the politicians in Canberra performed a raindance naked - at least it would give me something to laugh at.<BR/><BR/>Perhaps soon, the "pray for rain services" will turn into "repent now, there is no rain because you have pissed gawd off services" - and "armageddon is nigh services." <BR/><BR/>Any potential catastrophe is just grist for the mill for religious fundidiots. I would prefer the so called "scaremongering" of environmental scientists over the scaremongering of religious zealots anyday.<BR/><BR/>At least scientists have some evidence to work with.beepbeepitsmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931640447011071849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-82969707587509015702007-04-15T09:49:00.000-04:002007-04-15T09:49:00.000-04:00Fuck off, Sentipoop.Fuck off, Sentipoop.Gerthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07752117708821629614noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-6502855961354985792007-04-15T09:15:00.000-04:002007-04-15T09:15:00.000-04:00gert,"Sentinel's back, over at mine... "Are you ap...gert,<BR/><BR/>"Sentinel's back, over at mine... "<BR/><BR/>Are you appealing for help or just gossiping like an old woman?The Sentinelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18407669804421969164noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-8508869594072703102007-04-15T06:09:00.000-04:002007-04-15T06:09:00.000-04:00I don't think anyone here has an agenda and that w...I don't think anyone here has an agenda and that we agree that there is an exact scientific answer to what is causing temperature change (Global Warming). And it is also evident by the links provided that the scientific answer may not be achievable, and at least it still has a long way to go.<BR/>Tommy, <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP-n3E43M3Y" REL="nofollow">here is a quick video</A> on theory that mammal farts killed the dinosaurs. In fact, we don't really know for sure why they died, though we know it had to do with atmospheric change, way before man came along.<BR/><BR/>Again, I'm convinced it is both cycle and man. I'm also convinced that even a small contribution by man, could have a drastic affect on helping things warm up......and if not drastic, at least minor.<BR/><BR/>I'm also convinced that science will be able to explain it fully if many is able to survive a few more centuries.Baconeaterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11134934827966299989noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-80799950430188407462007-04-15T05:03:00.000-04:002007-04-15T05:03:00.000-04:00It’s perfectly reasonable to question the global w...It’s perfectly reasonable to question the global warming hypothesis even if you are not a climate scientist – everybody knows that they can’t even predict tomorrow’s weather let alone the weather in twenty years time. When I was at school they were always predicting that a new ice age was imminent. I read somewhere that it is the same folk predicting global warming. Others were predicting the end of oil, chromium and copper. A little later AIDS was going to kill off half the planet and spread like wildfire through the heterosexual population. Then there was ebola and SARS and now bird flu. It’s hard to take them seriously when you have just had the coldest summer in twelve years or when you discover that no one has yet noticed let alone suffered from a rise in the sea level.<BR/><BR/>It’s perfectly reasonable to question the global warming hypothesis when there are many reputable scientists doing so as well.<BR/><BR/>It’s perfectly reasonable to question the global warming hypothesis when it might eventually mean losing all the good things about 21st century civilization and be forced to return to a primitive agrarian lifestyle by rampaging green guards intent on ‘saving’ the planet.AngloAmerikanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02002362092073890146noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-49175363580992423552007-04-15T02:02:00.000-04:002007-04-15T02:02:00.000-04:00Climatologists are the "experts" who deal in forec...Climatologists are the "experts" who deal in forecasts and predictions. I don't envy their success rate so far in predicting "el nino" or incidents of drought and flood. God help us if we're dependant on them to predict something as major as global warming. <BR/>Of course they are always wise after the fact.Lexcenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17856993035719777231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-31576869652587489852007-04-15T01:17:00.000-04:002007-04-15T01:17:00.000-04:00This is a good website that discusses both the hum...This is a good website that discusses both the human impact and natural factors which affect the Earth's climate -- it's all interconnected. This is a very interesting and informative website provided by the University of Colorado at Boulder.<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://lasp.colorado.edu/science/solar_influence/" REL="nofollow">Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics</A><BR/><BR/>Excerpt: "The Sun’s energy sustains and nurtures all life including plant, animal, and human. There are also many indirect effects that are at least as important. Other factors entering the climate puzzle, including greenhouse gases, aerosols, and atmospheric circulation, are driven by solar radiation, and they influence each other by complex feedbacks. To establish the impact humans have on climate, we must have solid knowledge of any natural factors impacting climate, the most important being the Sun. LASP researchers strive to better understand the Sun’s influence on Earth by monitoring total solar irradiance (TSI) and spectral solar irradiance (SSI) variations daily."<BR/><BR/>Also, this particular link is interesting: <A HREF="http://lasp.colorado.edu/sorce/" REL="nofollow">The Solar Radiation and Climate Experiment</A>Stardusthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10560872454564355114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-10199920.post-16230450138644824792007-04-14T23:33:00.000-04:002007-04-14T23:33:00.000-04:00I think that global clinate change is influenced b...I think that global clinate change is influenced by human activity, at least in this modern age of technology. I certainly wouldn't try to put forward a case that prior to the modern technological era that mankind's actions had the capacity to influence climate on a global scale.<BR/><BR/>It is the degree to which human influence and activity may effect global climate that we might disagree on.<BR/><BR/>Frankly I think that economic concerns are always going to attempt to minimise the concept of human activity as having a major hand in global climate change.<BR/><BR/>I've been around environmental scientists for around 30 tears and not one of them has a great deal of doubt that this particular global climate change is not influenced by human activity. This is not an appeal to authority, just a crunching of the numbers. <BR/><BR/>Conversely, any environmental scientist I am aware of who states definitively that human activity does not have an influence on global climate change, seem to be inevitably in the pay of either the fossil fuels industry of the oil industry. <BR/><BR/>Exclusive: Report Charges Broad White House Efforts to Stifle Climate Research<BR/>http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/03/exclusive_repor_1.html<BR/><BR/>Scientists and economists have been offered $10,000 each by a lobby group funded by one of the world’s largest oil companies to undermine a major climate change report.<BR/><BR/>Letters sent by the American Enterprise Institute (AEI), an ExxonMobil-funded thinktank with close links to the Bush administration, offered the payments for articles that emphasise the shortcomings of a report from the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC). <BR/><BR/>Scientists offered cash to dispute climate study<BR/>http://environment.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,,2004397,00.htmlbeepbeepitsmehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12931640447011071849noreply@blogger.com