February 2, 2006

My Take On Amona

I always look for an end result. I can't see an end result in the Israeli Palestine situation without defined borders. I can't see an end result that includes small settlements. Though painful in the short run, the only way an end result to the I/P situation will occur, is to place emotions aside, define the borders, keep as many Arabs outside of those borders and then defend those borders as the situation warrants it.
Without religious Jews, Israel loses it's identity and spirituality, without secular Jews, Israel becomes an Arab-only state.
Yesterdays display of emotion by the settlers and their supporters was identical to Rachel Corries actions (assuming she didn't know she was defending an arm's tunnel), or Palestinian rock throwers. It was shameful. I can't get over the mindset of those who attack their police, their protectors. Try that in Canada or the USA. The end result is that the settlers looked just like crazed Islamists and they were put on display on TV viewed throughout the world. And bottom line, they wound up dismantling anyways. Many IDF soldiers were injured. I can't say enough how disappointing and terrible this was.
Israel is a democracy. Lots of parties though, it is pretty much impossible to get a majority. An election is coming up. The biggest issue is going to be "not" dealing with Hamas. And this means finally putting those final borders into place because Israel clearly has no one to deal with. Smart choices are going to have to be made as to where the border goes. And it is imperative that yesterdays display is not repeated.
To me, the Gaza withdrawal and the withdrawal from any small settlements will help Israel defend herself in the future from attacks. These attacks though will now be deemed International acts of war, and not civil unrest. The last thing Israel needs is civil unrest from Jews. Decisions are made by the government to remove some settlements, and they should be viewed in the same manner as they were when they were built.
Let me ask a very hypothetical question to the Orthodox and Ultra-Orthodox Jews that believe the disputed territory is Holy land: If you could guarantee that not one more Jew would die as result of an Arab bullet, missile or bomb, would you give up the territories?


  1. If you could guarantee that not one more Jew would die as result of an Arab bullet, missile or bomb, would you give up the territories?

    Speaking of hypotheticals, and this is one particularly apropos to yours, Bertrand Russell was once quoted as saying "that if it could be shown that humanity would live happily every after if the Jews were exterminated, there could be no reason not to proceed with their extermination."

    Why have I choosen this quote? Because I do not think that Arab-Muslim world will ever be satisfied with "defined borders"; I do not think they will be satisfied, as they have said time and again, until Israel and the Jews are exterminated. Save some great sea change in established Islamic thought, I just don't see it being any other way. Which isn't to say that it's impossible, ultimately, just that if such a thing is to occur, the circumstances surrounding it must be totally inconceivable to us.

  2. I'm aware that the current Islamic mindset will not be satisfied with any borders in Israel. They wouldn't be satisfied as long as the West exists for that matters. But my hypothetical has more to do with the real relevance of certain lands to religious Jews. That is my point.
    The Islamic mindset has to be changed dramatically. But in the meantime Israel will be safer with real borders.

  3. Your post has so many holes in it, I don't even know where to begin. Perhaps, I'll dedicate an entire post on my blog to your views someday. But here's a question I have for you: Was there ever a time in history that the Palestinians ruled the land that they should now call it their land? Was there ever a time in history that Jerusalem was the capital (besides under Jewish rule)? The answer to both those questions is no. When you'll understand that, and come to terms with the fact, you will understand how devastating the expulsion and destruction of Amona was. The ends do not justify the means. They think, in their warped minds, that they will be able to protect Israel better this way. However, it is still unjustified, and all those responsible should be held responsible for what happened. You don't beat up Jews the way they did, that's exactly what our enemies do! Please digest what I wrote, because it is only the beginning of what I have to say.

  4. Although I agree with you, I can understand the emotion of those Jews' love for the land, but not their actions (which they knew would be ultimately futile anyway).

  5. 3Pillars, if you've read my other posts about Israel you'll see I'm not a left wing nutjob. I'm aware there was never a Palestine. I also have a very good idea about the real history of Israel and the conflict. Amona was deemed illegal by the Israeli courts. I believe it cost Israel around a half a million a year just to oversee. Israel needs to focus on making a border and it can't spread itself out too thin. Now is the time, with Hamas winning the election, to draw the borders and defend the borders. They don't need to negotiate where they put them, they just have to be smart. The IDF soldiers were mainly Jews, and the settlers were ready to beat them up, so don't give me the "you don't beat Jews up" line. The settlers acted like Arabs and were treated like Arabs.

  6. I think the settlers were wrong in their behavior towards the policemen evicting them, as all the rock-throwing made them look no better than the Palestinians. But they do not deserve the kind of vilification they've been getting from you and everyone else. They're being treated like enemies and it really isn't fair. The government is to blame for this whole situation, not the settlers. For the past few decades it's been actively encouraging settlers to build their homes in these areas, devote their lives to them and now these people are supposed to be completely okay with the government when it suddenly changes its mind and wants to evict them? Honestly, how else did you expect them to react? They have every right to be angry. The Israeli government has basically used them.

  7. Israel has to take the highground when it comes to illegal settlements. The court ruled that these settlements were actually on Arab owned land I believe.

    As far as other settlement dismantlings in the future. I believe Israel is going to make some major decisions soon on their borders. The settlers should put Israel's safety first over land. They will be allowed to relocate to other settlements with compensation. I see only irrational people not accepting this.

  8. But in the meantime Israel will be safer with real borders.

    I think I've come around on this issue. I think you're absolutely right. Whereas not ceding ground is great and powerful as a symbolic gesture, it lacks the pramatism of being consolidated under well-defined borders. And yes, seeing as they will never accept Israel one way or another, that's all more the reason to withdraw for practical concerns.

  9. JT, I have been posting a link to your cartoons on various Yahoo message boards and Raving Atheist by the way. Just spreading the word.

  10. I mean DT, not JT. You probably get JT a lot.

  11. Actually, I get BT a lot--but that's only because my middle name is Lettuce.

    Awesome. Spread the love, my friend!