April 20, 2006

MOONBATS: WHAT IF



Anti semite Alex on the No God blog(far Left Moonbats) got my wheels in motion because of a comment he made about gays getting a state because of persecution. Why should Jews be a special case? My reply was to the affect that if it got out of hand, and they could successfully lobby for such a state, I would have no problem with it. I also know that the far left support homosexuality completely. I do too. Homosexuality is not a choice, it is a reality.
It also got me thinking that since Alex is a gay man, the fact that he doesn't side with Jews because of persecution is a bit mind boggling. Israel exists because of major league Jew bashing. It began as an escape for Jews to get away from anti-semitism more so than a return to the religious homeland.

Now for the revelation. Listen up Lefties, and try to put your thinking caps on.
Lets change history a tad, shall we. It is Europe 1886 and a gay man by the name of Todd Shmeckledorf started to notice how gay bashing was on a rise, that the public was accepting gay bashing more and more. He realizes that it is only getting worse and decides to start a movement to get gays a homeland away from those who won't leave gays alone or those who will even murder gays and take away their rights.
Most people in the late 1800's believed in God and gays were no different, but years earlier, a gay version of the bible was created which made Jesus appear gay.
Gays would have their own places of worship, where they prayed to the gay Jesus. This of course, fueled the flames against gays even more. Not only were they trying to legally marry, they were also pushing their gayness on society, by holding hands in public, and because they were gay most businesses wouldn't higher them, they had to create their own businesses and they usually hired mostly gays.
Shmeckledorf knew that according to the gay bible that Bethlehem was the birthplace of the gay Jesus. Bethlehem had a small gay community throughout history, but they were constantly persecuted. Palestine was relatively a barren place with 500,000 Arabs and 50,000 Christian gays.
After visiting Russia and seeing the plight of gays there, Shmeckledorf was considering other options like Uganda, but the gays wanted to return to gay Jesus' birthplace.
Gays started to immigrate to the Holy Land in the early 1900's. The Arabs were not too pleased. They would refuse to sell gays land and they would beat up gays constantly.
Fast forward to 1933. Hitler comes into power. He blames all of Germany and Europes woes on gays. Not only were they corrupting society, they also caused an economic crash because of their thriftiness and because they tended to do all their shopping at gay owned businesses, who were sending money to Bethlehem making the German Mark worthless. And the fact that they preached that Jesus was a homosexual was the final straw that broke the camels back. Gays became completely alienated and their rights were taken away. And the British who controlled Palestine, stopped gay immigration to Bethlehem. Boats of gays trying to escape Europe were turned away in Canada and the USA.
WW2 happened. All gays were rounded up and put in death camps (in reality this did happen, 1/10th of the gay population in Germany were in fact put into camps). As Hitler conquered the rest of Europe, every known gay was put into camps.
After the war, the numbers were staggering. 80% of the gays in Europe were murdered. Although Alex would argue it was less than 1 million, it was actually closer to 6 million.
Britain and the UN decided that gays should now get their own state which included the birthplace of the gay Jesus, and a place where any gay in the world could live if they chose to, especially if gay bashing got out of hand anywhere in the world.
A partition plan was set up. One state would be Arab majority and the other would be a gay majority. No Arab would be forced to move or lose land.
The Arabs didn't want to be under gay rule, they wanted to rule 100% of the middle east and they didn't like gays at all regardless. They started a war. They told Arabs to leave for a while so that they could slaughter the gay population and win the war.
Miraculously, the gays won the war. And they knew that the Arabs if let back in, would just attack again. They maintain their policy that any gay from anywhere on this planet can go to Bethrael (the name of the new country), but they also let in others who must wait through the regular immigration process. They just won't let anymore Arabs in because Arabs want to kill them. The Arabs who stayed during the first war have been allowed to stay, but attacks by them are not tolerated.
Over the years, the Arabs attacked Bethrael 5 times and lost every war. They sent over suicide bombers, killing gays who were having lattes in open cafes. They blew up gays in gay discos too.
They were offered a state next to Bethrael on numerous occassions but refused. Their ultimate goal is and always has been to destroy the gay state. Gays just want to be left alone and live in peace, but the Arabs keep sending missiles. And in a recent election, the Arab in the West Bank voted for a party that wants to eliminate the state of Bethrael and drive every gay into the sea.

Now moonbats, lets hear what you have to say.

47 comments:

  1. Wow, the blogger here is REALLY ugly, lol. Old, fat, and bald. does he have a wife?

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  2. 5'11" 208 pounds. 45 years old. Bald, ok, I'll give you that.

    Wedding pic.

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  3. Allen,

    He is married and a nice guy. I am not Tom Cruise either but it wouldn't stop me from bagging your wife. It didn't stop your ugly mailman.

    Pete

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  4. That was funny, Pete!

    O yeah, and the article was funny too.

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  5. Wow Allen, that was really constructive.

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  6. aawww... nice wedding picture :)

    You guys have been having fun and fighting and arguing over here when you know you should be visiting my blog @ http://beepbeepitsme.blogspot.com/


    My guess as to why leftie atheists seem to be more concerned about the palestinians is this>>> Lefties have traditionally identified with human rights issues, civil rights issues blah blah blah etc, and those groups that have the least power (economically, socially and politically )

    When lefties look at the israel/palestine situation today they see the palestinians as the underdogs.. or the ones who have the least means to help themselves or to improve their lot. And they prolly see israel as being the more powerful (economically, socially and politically and with extremely powerful friends), so maybe they see israel as less needing of their help/sympathy/empathy.

    Also, there is the thought that the more powerful party has more responsibility to solve the problem.

    Of course, I prolly don't need to mention that it was the good old lefties with their sense of social justice and fair play who spoke out against hitler and his fascist, racist, hateful actions towards the jews prior to and during WW2. Not that it did the lefties much good as they ended up in the camps with the rest of the people the nazis saw as less than equal. Gotta remember that those camps were also the dumping ground for communists (lefties), the infirm, the maimed, the old the sick, homosexuals and anyone who was a political dissident. Though a large % of people were there because they were jewish.

    (Did any of that make sense? )

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  7. BEAJ this is off topic but have you read about the study published by Mearsheimer and Walt on US - Isreali policy?

    It's generating some serious chatter. Here is the abstract

    Abstract
    In this paper, John J. Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago's Department of Political Science and Stephen M.Walt of Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government contend that the centerpiece of U.S. Middle East policy is its intimate relationship with Israel. The authors argue that although often justified as reflecting shared strategic interests or compelling moral imperatives, the U.S. commitment to Israel is due primarily to the activities of the “Israel Lobby." This paper goes on to describe the various activities that pro-Israel groups have undertaken in order to shift U.S. foreign policy in a pro-Israel direction.

    and here are a few links

    Harvard Study PDF

    NPR Story


    I thought you'd be interested.

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  8. Guav, I don't mind the insults but thanks any ways.

    Beep beep, I understand why the left supports the Palestinians over Israel. But that is problem with being a Leftist or Rightist. Case by case examinations are out the door. Anyone who sits down and clearly examines the facts from both perspectives in the I/P conflict would clearly see that Israel is right, but unfortunately Lefties only read Lefty literature usually. It is tough to get all the facts that way. I love being a Centrist.

    Chimp, I'm familiar with that study. Although I haven't read it in detail. I may later. I like to think Americas support of Israel comes from common sense. Lobbying exists on both sides.
    Unless people want to think that there is no oil lobby.

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  9. Beep,

    Just to clear the air. Nazis were/are socialist. They believe in the power of the state over the lives of the individual. The Nazis put communists in the camps because they were competition for the socialist ideas. The Nazis and the communists put anyone in a camp who posed a threat to the power of the leaders.

    One reason there is hatred of Jews is the simple fact that it is easy and that normally no one will lift a finger to help. Before Israel, when Jews lived in ghettos (real ghettos, not the American kind) no one cared, when they were killed my Muslims in Muslim countries no one cared. When the Crusades killed more Jews on the way to the "Holy Land" than Muslims when they got there, no one cared. When, in 1492, Spain finally freed it self of the Muslim invaders after a 700 year war the Spanish thrown tortured more Jews than Muslims no one cared. When boat loads of German Jews were sitting off the coast of the US before WWII and Roosevelt refused to allow them to enter as refugees no one cared. When after WWII Jewish survivors tried to enter “Palestine” and the British sometimes killed them or sent them to camps in Cypress no one cared. When in the 50’s when the Arab countries forced the Jews to leave their homes and become refugees in Israel no one cared.

    Today it is the same thing. The world does not care. Sure the US does care and this has a lot to do with the Jewish lobby and the American ideal of right and wrong. But there are many people who do not care and continue to blame the worlds problems on a small band of people.

    What always amazes me is that there are about 14 million Jews on this planet. What is the fuss all about. Just leave them alone.

    One last point for all of those who care enough to hate Israel for not being perfect. Jordan was also part of “Palestine” before the British split it up. So there is already a “Palestinian” country and it starts on the east bank of the Jordan River and ends on the Iraqi border.

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  10. In your dear Canada, a French woman, Natalie Gettliffe, has been jailed because she wants to save her children from a Christian sect, the International Church of Christ, that her exhusband has joined.

    She was given given legal custody of the children, but not a fanatic Christian court in Canada has had this pregnant woman arrested and kept in jail since April 11th.

    Canada must certainly be a progressive country.

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  11. That is only part of the story. She didn't listen to the court order, and she made the religious part an issue after the fact.

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  12. That is not at all what the French press says.

    http://www.lefigaro.fr/france/20060418.FIG000000020_une_francaise_ecrouee_au_canada_pour_enlevement_d_enfants.html

    According to this press, she went to Canada to sign an international accord concerning the children. She was arrested even though there was no international arrest warrant.

    An atheist who supports the International Church of Christ?

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  13. I forgot to mention that it was her father-in-law prosecuter who had her arrested. Great justice in Canada.

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  14. I don't support the Church, I support the law.
    Every country on this planet has problem with their justice system. No country is perfect, not the USA, Canada or Israel.

    What does this have to do with my post any ways?

    And I'm not that familiar with the story, I did a quick search and got a real newspaper article on it.

    Canada certainly isn't run by the Church.

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  15. One more thing Bernanda. I know it is you. But since you failed to mention Israel, Jews, Zionazis, Zionists, I didn't delete you this time.
    Even though it is typical of you to try to attack me with a comment that is totally unrelated to the topic.

    You sure are obsessed with me and my blog.

    But mention Israel, Jews Zionazis Zionists etc, and your post will only last for minutes if that.

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  16. "Jordan was also part of “Palestine” before the British split it up. So there is already a “Palestinian” country and it starts on the east bank of the Jordan River and ends on the Iraqi border. "

    exactly. I've had Palestinians who lived at the time tell me the EXACT same thing. Interesting that these knee-jerk Israel haters who care oh-so-much about the Palestinians don't listen to them.

    The new generation - who, btw, NEVER lived on the land they're laying claim to - are the ones who believe what the Muslim/Arabs countries who want to be rid of Israel tell them.

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  17. Just to clear the air.. the nazis derived their power base from the working class (mid west relgious america springs to mind)... and grew into a powerful fascist party who were supported by powerful private businesses. It is a myth that everything was owned by the state. The nazis were socialist in name only, rarely by deed. A further example of this is how North Korea is called the Democratic People's Republic of Korea yet one would hardly call northern korea democratic by deed or by nature. :) If you have any further confusion concerning socialism please don't hesitate to ask.

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  18. The Nazi party started out as a hate filled party run by thugs called the brown shirts. Hitler took over and was able to bring more people into the party because of the economic situation and promising to fix everything. He than was able to get the government and big business in because he promised to deal with the communists and shut them down. When the party took over the government they than took over the schools and universities, the utilities and other functions. Hitler allowed big business to stay in power as long as they did his bidding and supplied him with money. He was not a communist just a socialist. The Gestapo was everywhere, the camps started to spring up and production was slowly moved to producing war machines.

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  19. To expand on what bigbumbchimp said -

    I got into a discussion once with someone about politics and she recommended that I read the book, "They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby". Let's just say it opened my eyes a little.

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  20. I always find it ironic that you can hold up a sign saying "Gays for Palestinian Solidarity" in Israel and you will be fine. But if you hold up the same sign in Palestine they would never find your body.

    Gays and Jews should be united in our fight against Jihadists as we are both on their todo list. Unfortinately, we are not.

    But as more and more Muslim gays escape "honor killings" by seeking asylum in Israel, and as more and more gays are harrassed and beaten in pro-Palestinian marches, I am confident the gay community will choose the side that does not wish to "kill them in the worse way possible" (Al-Sistani).

    Israel is one of the most pro gay-right societies in the world. I hope it always stays that way.

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  21. Atheologist, Paul Findlay is a known anti-semite. He is loved by Stormfront,Zundel and David Duke.
    I have a hard time reading anything he says. I've done some searches and I've already dug up many holes and errors and unsubstantiated bs in his book.

    I admit there is an Israeli lobby, but there is also an oil lobby and a Saudi lobby, etc.

    I read one small excerpt and he uses terms like Palestinian land that was stolen. Right there he loses me.

    No one as yet to show me that Israel is on Arab land. Just because 20% was owned by Arabs does not make it Arab land. It was never country until 1948. So all his points against Israel are predicated by baseless "facts."

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  22. beaj,
    I read Findlay's book a long time ago, I don't remember too many details. I agree that much of what he says is exaggerated, but I have a relative who was chief of staff to a US congressman and I found that there is a lot of shady stuff going on behind closed doors. When I see propaganda like this, I wonder what type of organization the American Jewish Committee really is.

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  23. Okay, can you clarify something for me: I saw a special on tv where they were showing a Palestinian family who had lost a farm their family had farmed since the middle of last century to a Jewish settlement. Was this false?
    I was led to believe thata many many Palestinians have lost land that was in their family for decades if not centuries. Is this incorrect?

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  24. Listen, if you want to create gay states, jewish states, christian states, muslim states, and just partition up the world so everybody's the same you'll fail.

    People will find new reasons to hate each other. Even Israel has a diverse number of Jews - there's what, 17 political parties in the Knesset? Something like that.

    Hate is not a function of being around people you do like. Hate is a function of finding people to not like so you can feel better about yourself. That need will not go away if we create gay land.

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  25. Yes Bacon (I love calling you "Bacon"), the Nazis were "socialist" in some broad sense of the word—much in the same way that post-WWII East Germany called themselves a "Democratic Republic"—but they were not Lefties, which is what you are trying to imply ... not by a long shot. They were from your side of the aisle—the Right wing (you did mention you leaned Right, correct? I could be wrong).

    The conservative nationalists dominated Germany from the time of the Kaisers up to the Weimars and were a major cause of the social factors that eneabled Hitler to come to power. The Conservative Party, made up of landowners, aristocracy, high-ranking military officers, leading industrialists and powerful bureaucrats, they denounced the Jews as a "degenerate people" and blamed them for a wide variety of German society's ills.

    Their party platform of 1892 called for a war against the Jews and during the Weimar their campaign literature was as anti-Semitic as the Nazi's would eventually be. They wanted to destroy the Social Democrats and the liberal Progressive Party because both actively opposed anti-Semitism, threatened the privileges of the elites and supported the Republic.

    In 1932 the conservative nationalists around Hindenburg encouraged him to appoint Hitler as chancellor and supported his bid for dictatorial powers through the Enabling Act in '33. From then on they cooperated with the terror of the Nazi regime, which targeted the lefties, liberals, homosexuals—and of course, the Jews.

    "Anyone who sits down and clearly examines the facts from both perspectives in the I/P conflict would clearly see that Israel is right"

    That's completely untrue, of course. Many people sit down and do exactly that and do not come out thinking that Israel is "right." There is not one "correct" way to view the last 100 years of I/P history, and neither side is right in any objective sense—both sides have been wronged and both sides have committed horrible acts.

    Though perhaps politically Centrist, you're the farthest thing from a Centrist when it comes to this topic, nor are you objective and unbiased. You're very happy to use clearly Israeli-biased links and websites to support your arguments, but any comparable Palestinian-biased link or website is immediately dismissed as lies and as being, well, "biased." Or you just call it anti-Semitic and leave it at that.

    Your identity politics play a very strong role in shaping the lens through which you view the conflict, and the truth is, I don't think you're capable of viewing the situation objectively. This doesn't you a bad person, just very human.

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  26. I by no mean was endorsing the study I linked to. It was purely meant to bring attention to it.

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  27. Duane, a farmer renting is different than a farmer owning. I don't know for sure, but I believe Israel dealt with actual land deeds in most instances. If they haven't they are wrong if they didn't at least offer at least compensation.

    Steve, you have no idea about how hate works is Arab countries then.

    Guav, I am a realist, I deal with real cause and affects. I also deal with what I think real options are. It is apparent that you think you are less bias than me. But afterall you are only human.

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  28. Yes, correct, hitler was a rightwing fascist.

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  29. Oh here we go again. First of all Hitler being a socialist and leftist, come on it is clearly indicated in Mein Kampf that he considered Jews and Leftists as the ills of the German body. I can get you the page number as well. Second of all, you have to admit AJ that you are biast towards your kin and thats human. If I was an Arab I'd be biased to them. Thats what I want suggest, people like AJ who lived the conflict of 60s and the 70s and the Iraqi missiles grow in this nationalist movement. Young people with new blood with complete disregard of historical attrocities on both sides should sit down and talk, for fuck's sake just talk. I'll bet you both would cheer for Maccabi Haifa in a soccer match and you'd go togather to Sharm El Sheikh resort. Just talk and it would be solved I am sure of it. Just hug him instead of hugging a bomb. Just hug him instead hugging an oozi

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  30. Glo, I lived in Canada all my life, grew up in a very secular home, and I really was ignorant about the I/P conflict for quite some time.
    I'll admit I'm biased but I honestly believe my bias is very light.
    I try to take all perspectives all the time. And I'd love to see world peace.
    I just haven't seen anything that makes me optimistic on the Palestinian side in quite some time. The Palestinians are like someone who demands to win the jackpot in a lottery and will attack until someone lets their numbers come in.

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  31. Your bias is anything but "light." That's how you may imagine yourself, but I assure you, you are not.

    Although I have enough Jewish blood in me to get me Israeli citizenship and enough Jewish blood that I would have been shipped off to the death camps like my great-grandparents were, I do not identify as Jewish (or German) and I have no special love or concern for Jews or for Arabs. I don't particularly care about Israelis or Palestinians on a personal level at all—I truly have no personal bias on the topic.

    I have done what you said: I have clearly examined the facts from both perspectives, which has led me to believe not that "Israel is right," but that both sides have legitimate gripes and that both sides have acted like fucking savages.

    I don't actually believe that you have looked at it from both perspectives; really researched both sides. I don't. Because you consistently dismiss any information that comes from a "Palestinian" source, although you treat Israeli sources as if they are the paragon of objective and unbiased fact (unless they disagree with your 3-sentence summary of history, in which case you even dismiss Israeli or Jewish sources). To an outside observer such as me, your severe disconfirmation bias is plainly apparent.

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  32. Guav you don't know what I've looked at. I have looked at the conflict from both perspectives. I've read actual accounts of Palestinians. I also understand the history.
    It can be summed up to two words: Arab intolerence.

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  33. The big problem is Islam. Palestinians are Islamic. A lot of people are not sympathetic to the Islamic cause for reasons that are blindingly obvious. It is repellant and dangerous to any clear thinking Atheist. Israel does not have this problem.

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  34. I said I don't get involved in discussions about israel/palestine, it is prolly more accurate to say I TRY NOT to get involved. lol (It is all such a mess.)

    Case in point though when discussing "ownership of land". I hear this argument quite a lot from europeans in australia as well when discussing land-ownership with aborigines. (I am anglo/european by the way.) There is sort of the assumption that if you can't provide the bit of paper from 30 000 years ago which states that your great/great/great/great grand daddy used the land to hold clam-blakes, then the land isn't yours.

    The fact is : The land wasn't vacant or unused. It had been used in " an ownership capacity" which is totally different from the anglo notion of here is the "freehold lease document" designating this 1000 sguare miles belongs exclusively to me and my family/decendants.

    Traditional native ownership involves the concept of collective ownership which may span thousands of years of shared tribal history. This ownership reflects the lifestyle of the people's who first claim it --- that of a nomadic lifestyle based on the moving of stock from fertile pasture to fertile pasture and then through other pastures to watering areas etc etc.

    Traditional tribal history designates that this land as described has owners other than those who present the piece of paper saying they own it. Which is why australia has many "land claim petitions" in various courts around australia. I would suggest that the australian experience has similarities when discussing "land ownership" in israel/palestine.

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  35. And a quick point about the "hitler, leftie or rightie argument." Lefties paint hitler as a rightie. Righties paint hitler as a leftie. The more important point regardless of this issue, is whether you approve or condone the ACTIONS/BEHAVIOUR of someone like hitler. For it is by "their actions that you will know them"... their names or what they call themselves will be irrelevant.

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  36. I will also add regarding Hitler that believers paint him as an Atheist. And Atheists paint him as a Secular believer (which I think fits him).
    He wasn't an evolutionist either, and that is another thing thrown about by creationists. They say that he believed in survival of the fittest, a supreme race, which is a slaughtered version of evolution.
    He in fact believed that Aryans were specially created. Of course when you have a creation, you also have a God.

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  37. Beep Beep, about the land issue. It could have been handled better by the Arabs. If Aboriginals strapped bombs on themselves and took out Anglo/Euros on school buses, how would the Australian government handle it?

    And again, no land had to be taken away even from the "renters." Read up on the partition at Wikipedia.

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  38. The point about the land in Israel that was bought by Jews from Arabs is that the Arabs of the Ottoman Empire sold land to Jews, they thought the land was useless. If these same Arabs were renting the land to other Arabs than it was the land owners decision to sell and not rent any longer. The point is that Jews did not just show up in the 1800's and take land. The land was owned and than sold to them.

    The other issue is refugees. We hear about the Arab refugees, Palestinians, who were forced from their land. When these people left their land and than could not return because the Arabs lost the war they started they do not automatically retain ownership, no where in the world does that occur. Jews did not force the Arabs out as a wholesale political decision. A small minority of Arabs may have been forced to leave by some Jews but this was not some coordinated effort. Most of the Arabs were asked to stay but refused. Just as a side bar, the Arab population in Israel, before Israel was a country, murdered Jews and destroyed villages and homes. This is not a new phenomena. I would also like to point out that it is the Palestinians who refuse to make peace with Israel. With all the peace accords and agreements have been broken by them. When they had almost everything they wanted, a promise of Israeli withdrawal, negotiations for another country and so on, the Arab population went to war again and we had the uprising.

    The other issue that needs to be discussed is the hatred of the Arabs towards the Jews. The Palestinians still have the destruction of Israel in their charter. They are still murdering innocent Jews in Israel, they are still enforcing their boycott of countries that do business with Israel, they still teach to their children hatred of Jews using Sesame Street type characters. Another example of this education of hatred is that Arab children are taught to count not by counting stones or houses but by counting the dead Jews. So please do not try to make this an even conflict. One side, the Arab, is teaching hatred. The other side, the Israelis, is trying to figure out how to survive this onslaught.

    The point I was trying to make about Hitler is that he and his government controlled all aspects of people’s lives, from birth to death. This is a socialist tendency not a conservative tendency.

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  39. Yeah. Believers like to think of hitler as an atheist even though german military belt buckles had "gott mit uns" emblazoned on them. This was on the belt buckles during the first world war as well, the design was changed slightly during the second. "Gott mit uns" roughly translated as "god is with us."



    When I point this out to christians (in particular), they like to believe that hitler and the nazis, worshipped the germanic pagan gods. In reality, germany was one of the most religious nations in europe during that time period. The majority of people in germany were either catholic or protestant (lutherans). Even if someone wanted to believe that hitler and the nazis worshipped pagan gods, (contrary to evidence), that wouldn't make hitler or the nazis atheists. It most certainly puts them in "the theist category."

    Nazis and Atheists
    http://www.bowness.demon.co.uk/belt.htm

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  40. re hatetaxes: Au contraire. Complete control is a tendency of totalitarian regimes. Left or right has very little to do with it. Nazi germany was a fascist state. Italy was a fascist state. No matter where they start, left or right, most go full circle into totalitarianism and fascism.
    FASCISM:~~ A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. (This describes nazi germany much better than socialism does. )
    SOCIALISM:~~ Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
    (Socialism by that definition could just as easily be describe aspects of corporatism.)

    Nazi germany was clearly a fascist state.

    http://www.reference.com/browse/columbia/fascism

    Another relevant reading about fascism and its ideological origins is from answers.com

    fascism and ideology http://www.answers.com/topic/fascism-and-ideology

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  41. Re hatetaxes: " Industries and trusts were not nationalised in Nazi Germany, with the exception of private rail lines (nationalised in the late 1930s to meet military contingencies). The only private holdings that were expropriated were those belonging to Jews. " (This is typical of a fascist state, not a socialist one as fascists have racist/elitist tendencies. Fascists court and romance big business, they don't control it by government ownership.)

    http://www.answers.com/topic/fascism-and-ideology

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  42. I took up the subject with my American Studies Professor who is an American Leftist, A Marxist more likely. He did agree that the Left has more tendency to disagree with the notion that there should be an ethnic state created in Israel, who strongly agreed that Israel is heading towards more of a Seculer state but then again the game which the Arabs are playing bringing religious and enthnic hate puts Israel on the defensive for their race and/or religion. He actually at the moment had a book on his desk didn't get the title but it had a picture og Powell and Arafat. He showed many passages of PLO breaking peace agreements nad the writer was all for removing Arafat from the seat. I suppose it was written prior to his death.

    Hatetexas, I do agree with you that during my earlier years we had S.S like programs that tell us of the Palistinian cause and feeding an anti jew sentiment with passages from the Quran I might say. But nowadays many "liberal" and "leftist" Arabs who by going into Marxism left Islam behind like myself are raising awareness in different sectors of the educational system of the benefits of peace in the conflict and "de-intalling" that hate, but we have given up hope in older generations.

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  43. FASCISM:~~ A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. (This describes nazi germany much better than socialism does. )
    SOCIALISM:~~ Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

    It is a small point but while the industries were not government run, they were government controlled. Who to trade with, who to sell to, what was being produced... People call facist right wing, but my point is that facist are more left wing than right.

    GLO,

    I do not see the Arab world becoming leftist and accepting Israel. During the cold war, the leftist countries would not accept Israel. It seems that only capitalist nations with balls accept Israel.

    The Muslim religion does not seem to allow for others to have different views when it comes to beliefs in a supreme being. This has always confused me. Why would anyone in Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Iran or any other Muslim country care what I believe? What is it to them? That is what I can not understand.

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  44. Taxes, to be fair, Fundamentalist Christians aren't too far off when it comes to caring what different religions believe. At least they stopped killing over it. And I consider Iraq different.
    The Muslims in the middle east have to reform and they won't do it on their own. And just like with Japan, someone had to be the guinea pig.

    If the US didn't bomb Japan, someone would have used the Atom bomb to show the devastation. This is why the Cold War didn't turn into a Holocaust.

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  45. nah.. modern fascists, neofascists are also described as rightwing.. (just the way it is pal :)

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  46. Sadly enough AJ, in those countries you're more likely to be beheaded than left alone. Even secterian minorities are not left alone, think about different set of beliefs or worse denouncing their god is fairy godmother. I would like to say in more moderate countries but then again when I look into the middle east the closest country that came to seculerism is Tunisia, the state doesn't support the religion, many rules contradict religion, and there almost no or few Islamists in their countries. but for us the core of middle east we have to be hiding for our leftist agenda and disguise it as mainstream otherwise the government will be upon us

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