Land in the 20th and 21st Century doesn't work like land used to work, when all solid land wasn't claimed on this earth.
There is no such thing as Palestinian land, Muslim land, Arab land, Jewish land, Atheist land, Caucasian land, Christian land, etc.
Land is either owned and/or governed. That is it. That is how land works. Land is just dirt, plain and simple.
Yes, the Palestinian region has existed throughout recorded history. Yes, there is a such thing as Arabs who are/were indigenous to the region, as well as Christians and Jews, etc.
But demographics change everywhere. Immigration is not a form of stealing. You can only steal land if it is OWNED.
The percentages of Muslims in the West has climbed in recent years. Nobody is accusing Muslims of stealing Western lands though because they are not.
The region of Palestine was last governed by the British before Israel was created.
Arabs and their mindless supporters tend to forget that it was the Brits who came up with the White Paper which limited Jewish immigration into the British controlled land of Palestine.
The Arabs, with the exception of the very few who owned land in Israel, have absolutely no claim to Israel. In fact, they have no claim to the West Bank, but it is open to negotiations. Just as Israel was when the Jews were successfully lobbying for it.
Over 90% of the Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza were born in the West Bank and Gaza, and have no property in Israel proper. Their grandfathers may have lived there, but so what? I used to live in Toronto, I don't anymore. In fact, in Toronto, the Kensington district used to have a Jewish majority until the late 50's. But the Jews moved to Northern Toronto. Nobody is making a claim that Kensington is Jewish land.
My house and property is not Jewish land. It wouldn't matter if everyone on my street were Jews. Land can be sold. And it can as easily be sold to anyone of any ethnicity.
The only solid earth on the planet today that is not accounted for besides the disputed West Bank is Antarctica which leads me to a solution to Israeli Palestinian conflict.
Looks like a snowy Tel Aviv before it was built in 1909, doesn't it?
The trick is to get the Palestinians to move there. They are easily tricked. Their leaders and especially the leaders of other Arab countries have duped them for years.
I'm not worried that they will read this because every Lefty knows that Palestinians are so hard done by that there is no way they have a computer or internet access, and even if they can get their hands on one, and assuming they don't destroy it, there is no way they can read English because their education has to be next to non-existent thanks to Jooooos not allowing them to have schools.
Back to the plan. Everyone knows that Arabs follow Jews wherever we go. The first thing is to build a small Temple in Antarctica. Then a rumour must be spread. "A lost tribe of Arabs have been found in Antarctica, and they have been living peacefully, but now the Jews have started to force them into the colder regions.
The Jews are planning on settling in Antarctica, the fifth largest continent on this planet, with an eye on New Zealand. And they discovered glaciers filled with oil."
The hard part will be transportation. But I have that covered too. Another rumour that someone has been found to be corrupt at El Al airlines. He is a Jewish airline security guard who feels that the Palestinians have been treated unjustly and wants to make sure the same thing doesn't happen to the Antarctic Arabs. So he smuggling Arabs in the cargo of the planes that fly to Antarctica. Of course, Israel will pay for the Arabs one way trip. It will take time. 200 Arabs crowded in cargo each trip. 15000 one way trips will do the job.
There is no such thing as Palestinian land, but maybe they can successfully lobby for Antarctica once enough of them get there. And they can finally have a Palestinian governed land. Plenty of water too. 90% of the world's fresh water is in Antarctica.
Whoever controls Antartica will have their hands on the largest supply of fresh-water in the world, and that's just the surface.
ReplyDeleteFC
OOOps! should have read the WHOLE post!
ReplyDeleteFC
The "owned definition" essentially means that if aliens land on earth and decide through whatever process of ownership they espouse, that the earth belongs to them; then our concept of what ownership is will also fall on deaf ears, as the martians will not recognise that concept of ownership as valid throughout the solar system.
ReplyDeleteBeep Beep, if Aliens invade my house I am probably defenseless against them. They can have it.
ReplyDeleteBut human beings must respect my land deed.
"200 Arabs crowded in cargo each trip. 15000 one way trips will do the job."
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm not yet enlightened enough to find fantasies of genocide funny. But I'm glad you are.
Thank you for your help in clarifying what has become a very muddied issue to the world (or at least to whomever reads this blog).
ReplyDeleteAn endless supply of ice- sounds kind of fun to me. Ok, maybe not.
ReplyDeleteI think the root cause of all problems between Palestine/Israel or for that matter Muslims/West is the following:
ReplyDelete"THEIR FAITH IS ISLAM and OTHERS' FAITH IS NOT"
Now how do you solve that problem?
Sheik, again, if the Muslims are actually stealing owned land in any of the conflicts.......that is stealing. But legal immigration is not stealing. Right now, if the USA were to have a vote, my guess is that they would restrict, or even say "no more Arabs for the time being" Sometimes the majority view of a countries inhabitants doesn't overrride gov't policy. Just like the Arabs who didn't want any Jews moving to the Palestine region. It wasn't up to the Arabs anyways.
ReplyDeleteArsehole, my solution is not genocide.
Steve, are you that deluded to think that Jerusalem means that much to the Palestinians. It is another Red Herring. Yes, the UN proposed Jerusalem to be an international city.....but lets not forget, the Arabs rejected the partition plan.
Also, every Muslim who prays between Jerusalem and Mecca has his ass pointing towards Jerusalem.
i'm pretty much a religious zionist nut. but it is just dirt. dirt is a hot commodity. I once saw a guy near muskoka in Ontario driving a pickup truck with the back full of dirt cut off a car on the only road going through the area. I thought what a nut racing around with dirt a dirt farmer. Then I found out the price of dirt is quite high. 8 bucks a bag at Canadian tire for a little potting soil. I don’t know why people can’t just share their dirt. When I was a kid I used to play with other kids in the sand/dirt box. Why can’t we all just get along?
ReplyDelete"then our concept of what ownership is will also fall on deaf ears, as the martians will not recognise that concept of ownership as valid throughout the solar system."
ReplyDeleteBEEP BEEP, you have no idea how right on the money you are. Check this out.
Even illegal immigration can create insuperable difficulties. I can think of two in the United States.
ReplyDeleteToday, we can't deport all of the 12 million illegal immigrants living inside the country; we're stuck with each other whether we like it or not.
In the 19th century, illegal immigration on Indian terrorities, often after the discovery of precious metals, made it impossible to uphold treaties. Often times the government tried to renegotiate the arrangements, which provoked futile wars against whitey.
RE bacon: I understand what you are saying, except that basically what is happening here is that we recognise what "ownership" is in a modern legal context because it benefits us to do so.
ReplyDeleteAnd we fail to recognise what "ownership" means to other cultures as that definition would then benefit them.
Beep Beep, Arabs define Arab land as the land between any two Arabs on the planet in all directions:)
ReplyDeleteAntarctica won't work, man. The stones are buried beneath the ice, so what on earth can the "disgruntled youth" throw? Also, I'm not sure how well tires are gonna burn in that cold, damp environment. Without the black smoke & acrid scent from buring tires, it just won't work. Realize it or not, burning tires put the "Infant" in "Intafada."
ReplyDeleteLya, they leave out a lot of facts at Berkeley. Steve would have failed Mid East Studies if he relied on real history instead of the garbage his professor spewed.
ReplyDeleteMike, maybe the UN can throw in some makeshift greenhouses for them to destroy.
ReplyDeleteThey'll find chunks of ice adequate to throw when they want to vent. But they may have to throw them at each other...of course that won't be a problem, Hamas and Fatah memeber have no problem shooting at each other right now.
Well put.
ReplyDeleteCoupla problems: first off, no-one survives in Antarctica without external support. The Palestinians would eternally need the support of the outside world .... oh, er, stupid argument; forgot they're really good at arranging that.
ReplyDeleteNext, Antarctica is actually completely claimed by various countries that have staked off bits of and occupy them, living in science bases to keep their claims. The Antarctica Treaty will be expiring soon and scientists are getting antsy. Mind you, most of these countries have been telling Israel what to do and I suppose they could be shamed into putting their money where their mouth is. (Joke. Not bloody likely.)
Third, one of the best years of my life was spent in Antarctica and I object to the current format of Palestinian going there to terrorise the wild life. Judging by the "greenhouse debacle" they'd probably rip apart the dwelings, freeze to death and Israel would be blamed by Jenny Tonge. http://tinyurl.com/qg767
Steve said "Thats why you'll never understand the root of conflict. Its not dirt to the Jews or Muslims. It has RELIGIOUS IMPORTANCE to people."
ReplyDeleteActually that clearly shows a very accurate understanding of the conflict. Thanks to some totally unsupported beleifs in sky faeries that are assumed to be much more important than individual lives and liberties the faithful (ie. those incapable of critical and rational thought) are unable to recognise dirt for what it is. Furthermore, any idiot can see that if it wasn't for the unshakable faith of the parties involved then there wouldn't be a problem because rationally there is no problem once the issue of "my neighbour is a jooooo" or "my neighbour is a terrorist" is removed. Once again, faith is the issue. Fucking geniuses - honestly! You are insane for buying into the not just dirt argument because you are playing into irrationality and supporting the continuation of this madness. Personally, I'm fucking tired of it. I'm fucking tired of having to share reality with a bunch retards that are totally unaware of it. (excuse the venting, but face some reality for once will you). "RELIGIOUS IMPORTANCE to people" more important than the lives of others that don't even believe in the lies, false history and bronze age peasant rantings. Please! Just shut the fuck up already will you - this is the 21st century. We have the scientific method. We have centuries of evidence about all manner of wonderful things that we understand better and better and better. We have centuries of evidence of the distorition and total unreliability of religious doctrines. We have absolutely not one single shred of evidence of a god and you stupid bastards keep placing that at the top of the list above all other interests. It's dirt! It's just dirt! The only thing stopping everyone for sharing it is the idiocy of faith - the imbecilic idea of "RELIGIOS IMPORTANCE"!
Beepbeep said "And we fail to recognise what "ownership" means to other cultures as that definition would then benefit them."
Hey, and maybe the definition of other cultures is too strict also. I mean, how about other species? Or even imagined species if that's better for you. Or perhaps we should just all leave the planet in case the dinosaurs want it back? How about if just my neighbours definition of ownership is different to my own and so my neighbour decides he owns my patio furtniture? Should I recognise his claim? No, I shouldn't because there are laws and it doesn't matter if he agrees with those laws - they still stand. The same is true internationally. The British legally owned the land. The British legally gave it up. The Israelis now legally own the land and that is recognised under international law and everybody could leagally own bits of it if they'd start being individuals and treating each other as individuals instead of continuing with this insanity of faith and faith based group identity.
Choose, Steve is an Atheist with his head up Muslim butt.
ReplyDeleteI really don't think this conflict is about religion as much as ethnicity and Arab intolerance.
Most of the Arab grievances are Red Herring objectives............the reality is intolerance and childish emotion.
Steve, here is a very good attempt at an unbiased history of the region. Your maps about land and population distribution ownership is obviously bull crap in your post about the history of the conflict.
ReplyDelete"Arsehole, my solution is not genocide."
ReplyDeleteWhat do you expect to happen to the people who are transported in cargo to the coldest place on earth? You're advocating mass murder. And since the victims are selected based on nationality, you're genocidal.
"Ah, how cozy armchair delusions must be."
ReplyDeleteFortunately for us, Bacon relies on hard facts and not armchair delusions like flying millions of people to their deaths.
Duane, true. But you can't replace Arab with Jew and keep a straight face.
ReplyDeleteArse is sarcastically referring to my sarcastic idea of flying smuggled Palestinians to Antarctica.
ReplyDeleteDuane, do Jews intimidate you?
ReplyDeleteIsn't Steve Persian and thus an Arab and thus an inborn slant to the Jew Arab conflict for the Arabs as Bacon as Jew will slant for the Jews? Persian Christian, I gather that one Steve
ReplyDeleteA large number of American Jews want to forget or are ignorant of the fact that Jews committed acts of terrorism against the British government and civilians during the time of British control.
ReplyDeleteYou are one of those deliberate ommiters.
Paul, I am completely aware of the history. The bottom line is that land was up for grabs/lobbying etc.
ReplyDeleteIt has no bearing on my post.
No country on this planet had a clean start and was accepted by everyone.
How is Steve's "head up Muslim butt"? He acknowledged both sides are taking this too extremely. Your comments leave me to believe you are very biased and subjective regarding this conflict.
ReplyDeleteOk then this does not propose a peaceful solution. That means if the arabs get stronger and take the land back, then we can say the demographics just changed, ignoring the harm that will be caused to obtain the land.
ReplyDeleteThere is already a solution to most of Israel since it is now a sovereign state.
ReplyDeleteIf the Arabs want to fight, that is their problem.
The Arabs have enough lands to go to, including Brazil, where there is now over 15 million people of Arab descent there right now.
Quit being a hypocrite.
Israel should have responded sooner - It is Israel’s government fault for this escalation.
ReplyDeleteFor years the Arab population around and surrounding Israel has been bombing with rockets and suicide bombers.
Would the U.S. or any other country shown such restraint while its citizens are terrorized, the answer is absolutely not.
Israel chose restraint. The Arab world sees restrained as a sign of weakness and capitulation.
It is long overdue for Israel to take off the gloves and respond with extreme force and keep the pressure without relenting.
Do not worry about the media or world opinion. You do whatever you have to, to defend your country and its population.
People in the world respect those in power who defend their citizens and not weaklings, even though they may object initially.
If the Arab permit extremist to hide among civilians, they must bear the consequences, it is a right and an obligation to protect its citizens by any means available – no force is too small, extreme force and prejudice is required.
For every bullet a grenade, for every missile a bombardment. When Sharon was defense minister many years ago, that was the policy and it worked, it will work today also.
Anyone threatening the security will be expelled out of their homes and the greater Israel
Jay Draiman
NO PALESTINIAN STATE – No land concessions R3.
ReplyDeleteImagine that the various people who settled in the United States for the past 300 years decided one day that they one to parcel the United States into an independent State just for them, would the American public go for it. The Answer is absolutely NO.
The situation in Israel today is no different. The Arabs there are not Palestinians, there is no such Arab nation as Palestine or Palestinian people.
Europeans countries today are consisting of numerous people from other countries. Would the Europeans people cede part of their country to set up another State in their midst. The answer is absolutely NO.
All the Arabs in Israel and surrounding areas are from the various Arab nations, such as Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon and other Arab nations.
Prominent PLO Arab says there are no 'Palestinians' and no "Palestine"
PLO executive committee member Zahir Muhsein admitted in a March 31, 1977 interview with a Dutch newspaper Trouw.
"The Palestinian people do not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct 'Palestinian people' to oppose Zionism. "
The Qur'an 17:104 - states the land belongs to the Jewish people
If the historic documents, comments written by eyewitnesses and declarations by the most authoritative Arab scholars are still not enough, let us quote the most important source for Muslim Arabs:
"And thereafter we [Allah] said to the Children of Israel: 'Dwell securely in the Promised Land. And when the last warning will come to pass, we will gather you together in a mingled crowd'.".
017.104
YUSUFALI: And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.
PICKTHAL: And We said unto the Children of Israel after him: Dwell in the land; but when the promise of the Hereafter cometh to pass We shall bring you as a crowd gathered out of various nations.
SHAKIR: And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.
- Qur'an 17:104 -
Any sincere Muslim must recognize the Land they call "Palestine" as the Jewish Homeland, according to the book considered by Muslims to be the most sacred word and Allah's ultimate revelation.
Sequence of historical events, agreements and a non-broken series of treaties and resolutions, as laid out by the San Remo Resolution, the League of Nations and the United Nations, gives the Jewish People title to the city of Jerusalem and the rest of Israel totaling approximately 45,000 square miles, as mandated by the League of Nations in July of 1922. The process began at San Remo, Italy, when the four Principal Allied Powers of World War I - Great Britain, France, Italy and Japan - agreed to create a Jewish national home in what is now the Land of Israel. (You might as well break apart Syria which was mandated at the same time).
Yehuda Draiman.
PS
20 Years of Research Reveals Jerusalem Belongs to Jews
by Hillel Fendel
(IsraelNN.com) Jacques Gauthier, a non-Jewish Canadian lawyer who spent 20 years researching the legal status of Jerusalem, has concluded: "Jerusalem belongs to the Jews, by international law.".
Gauthier has written a doctoral dissertation on the topic of Jerusalem and its legal history, based on international treaties and resolutions of the past 90 years. The dissertation runs some 1,300 pages, with 3,000 footnotes. Gauthier had to present his thesis to a world-famous Jewish historian and two leading international lawyers - the Jewish one of whom has represented the Palestinian Authority on numerous occasions.
Gauthier's main point, as summarized by Israpundit editor Ted Belman, is that a non-broken series of treaties and resolutions, as laid out by the San Remo Resolution, the League of Nations and the United Nations, gives the Jewish People title to the city of Jerusalem. The process began at San Remo, Italy, when the four Principal Allied Powers of World War I - Great Britain, France, Italy and Japan - agreed to create a Jewish national home in what is now the Land of Israel.