September 20, 2011
Real History Of The Israeli Palestine Conflict
H/T Elder of Ziyon.
I'm sort of tired of the anti-Israel stance taken by many free thinkers. I really don't think half of them know much of the history of the conflict, nor do they give Israel any room when it comes to the fact that almost every country on this planet began through might and/or negotiations. Thus, I put up this video, though admittedly one sided, it is full of real history, not rhetoric.
Also, the false idea about Palestinian land is a non starter to me. Land has no DNA, and the land between where two Arabs live is not Arab land by default. Especially when we are talking about non sovereign land, which was the case in Israel prior to 1948 and still is the case in the West Bank and even Gaza today.
I don't get the shot at Obama at the end of the video. Using the 1967 borders (which really never existed) as a starting point isn't a new idea. George Bush Jr. used the same line of thinking when he wanted to come to a solution.
I still believe the settlements were a mistake. But the Palestinians have never shown a desire for a lasting peace either. The settlements are pretty much a diversion, as the ethnic cleansing of Jews in Gaza showed.
However, with the world getting smaller, this perpetual conflict cannot last very much longer, at least when it comes to definable borders. Something is going to have to give, and very soon.
Finally, I really think the support coming from the GOP (which is blaming Obama for the upcoming UN vote...somehow) is not helping when it comes to overall support of Israel by the West, right now.
The GOP is despised at this time by the majority, while Obama is someone who squandered his ability to lead the way he wanted to. The GOP is doing a great job of alienating the middle and lower class by emphatically stating that they won't cut taxes on the rich, while they are for doing away with the payroll tax credit (thus taxing the lower classes more). They are also viewed as the anti-science/anti-progress party.
Today, both Romney and Perry brought up their undying support for Israel. This could lead to a lot more Americans rethinking their support for Israel. The cognitive dissonance that goes on when someone you disagree with on very important issues (the government and the economy) makes any statement regardless of whether they are bringing in good points or not, can cause people to change their minds about what were lesser issues (like supporting Israel to the average American). This could even spill over to Europe and Canada as well.
Logging you in...
Comments by IntenseDebate
Alex · 554 weeks ago
Israelis/Jews base their land claim on a document that they say was written by god. Whose god? Where is the proof of this authorship? In a completely atheistic world, Jews have no claim to any land especially after another group threw then out. They have also built an apartheid wall, which if you look at it historically, is very interested. Apartheid enters English via Dutch. Until the seventeenth century, many many Jews resided in The Netherlands and especially Amsterdam. In the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, "persecuted" Dutch protestants made their way to South Africa WHERE SOMEONE ALREADY LIVED, took over the land and formed South Africa which they were quick to give a discriminatory flair. Yes I am minimizing the British role because ultimately, South Africa was colonized more by the Dutch. Did this mentality enter the Dutch psyche via Jews? A few centuries later, the descendants of the people who came up with this idea paid off the British to allow them into Palestine, WHERE SOMEONE ALREADY LIVED, take over the land (Jews bought 7% of Palestine) and form Israel (which has had a 66-year-long state of emergency). Israel supported apartheid South Africa, they tested nuclear weapons there (France and the US sold them the uranium -- all this is documented fact, btw) and they aided South Africa's attempts to overthrow Mugabe in Zimbabwe (getting rid of Mugabe because he is a crook is fine; just because he is black is not).
Israelis are doing the EXACT same things to Palestinians that the Nazis did to them. How is that fair? And these are the "chosen people"? Palestinians don't go around saying "we are gods chosen people". Jews do. You know who did before that? Hitler, and we see how that worked out.
Israel (like Japan) also does not automatically confer citizenship, they will not allow all the Palestinians to return to their land and will not count all the Palestinians as Israelis (that would make Jews the numeric minority in Israel). They also say that they are keeping a "covenant" with god by declaring Jerusalem as their capitol. Someone was there first, also, Israel. Again in an atheistic world, their claims are meaningless. Whose god? Where is this claim written down? Authenticity?
Palestinians may not be in the right -- although if I stole your land and destroyed your home and jailed you indefinitely, wouldn't you be mad at me? -- but they certainly have a cleaner track record than Israelis/Jews. Up until the end of WW2, they were minding their business. The best part is that long before the British and the Jews screwed things up, Muslims, Christians and Jews were living peacefully in an environment that was 70% Muslim. Radical Islam had not even been thought about. It is actually a by-product of the existence of the State of Israel.
How's that for no politically correct BS?
The Atheist Jew 73p · 554 weeks ago
Btw, Pakistan was carved out in 1947 as a Muslim nation. It cause a displacement of 5 million people, but we won't see Alex bitch about that.
Stolen land concept is assmonkey rhetoric. 20% of the land was owned by Arabs, 8% by Jews in 1947. Rest was state land, which doesn't mean Arab land by default.
As for the idiotic assumption that Israel caused radical Islam, that is a joke. It ignores the massive land acquisitions of the Muslims in the past, as well as the fact that Syria, Darfur, Iraq and Pakistan conflicts, etc. have zero to do with Israel. The reason why radical Islam exists so fiercely today is that they discovered 21st Century technology.
Yep, you win big time when it comes to BS.
bᴜy an essay · 502 weeks ago