I Guess Atheists Rule

This post on Google Groups (Atheism versus Christianity) has to have been written by an atheist. I just can't give a debating Christian (or any debating believer) enough credit, not for the wisdom in the following, but for the honestly:

Christians: Tips To Doing Battle With Evil Atheists

Some things to keep in mind:


1. Remember that they are people, just like you are. Contrary to what you may have been led to believe, they are not some lower life form we share this planet with.

2. More than likely, they are smarter than you are. This can be difficult to come to grips with, but it does appear to be true and is a claim that is actually supported by the Bible (1 Corinthians 1:18-31)

3. Statistically, they are also as moral, if not more so than you are. While it is a good thing that they generally are highly moral, it is a shame that we, who often times claim the moral high ground, seem unable, or unwilling, to match our words with our lives.

4. They will probably thump you in debate. They are much more likely to have carefully thought through their position and understand why they believe what they do. We are more likely simply to present some argument that the person we heard it from guaranteed would destroy the enemy. The problem with that is that many of them have heard the same arguments many times and are easily able to counter them.

5. Don't under-estimate their knowledge of the Bible. Many of them are more familiar with the Bible than the average Christian is. And they know all of the passages that will cause you a problem, and will not hesitate to challenge you with them.

So, as a Christian, what chance do we have when doing battle with the godless empire? Here are some suggestions that may make your stay here more rewarding.


1. Don't feel like you have to win all of the battles. You are not going to. In fact, you may not win any of them. Be satisfied with being able to clearly and logically express what you believe and why. While you may never convince another person on this group, you will have helped yourself by taking the time to understand what you believe and why, and to verbally present it. 1 Peter 3:15 says in part "Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have." We are challenged to give an answer, not to win a fight.

2. Be respectful, open and truthful. The remainder of 1 Peter 3:15 tells us to make our defense "with gentleness and respect". Realize that the people you are debating with really do have a lot to offer. Don't throw away the opportunity to learn from them because they do not believe in the God we hold dear. Don't make the mistake of believing that everything an atheist says is suspect.

3. Treat them the way you would like to be treated yourself. Remember what Jesus says in Matthew 7:12: "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." Jesus tells us to initiate the desired treatment, not just respond to others in the way we are treated. Most atheists here will treat you with at least the same amount of respect that you show to them.

4. Be willing to admit that there are things you don't know. Believe it or not, it will not hurt your position.

5. Remember that our walk is by faith and that we cannot prove that God exists or that the Bible is true. We might be able to make an argument to support those beliefs, but do not mistake that for proof.

6. Remember that while the Bible may be authoritative to you, like it is to me, to an atheist it is just an old book and has no more authority than the Iliad.

7. Enjoy your stay with us, learn and share, and don't get too worked up about anything.

8. Don't feed the trolls.

H/T God is For Suckers and Pharyngula

I had to look up 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, and it hurt my head. But it sort of says that God will destroy the intelligent non believers (they will perish), while the foolish believers will live for eternity.

No wonder Christianity appeals to so many in the third world.

So it is cool to be ignorant. The ignorant will live forever. I just don't understand why Christians have to debate. Is it an ego thingy?

I know why I debate. It is for the lurkers. Those on the fence, who have been brainwashed most of their life. Those brainwashed that evolution is false especially really need to be corrected. Not that the ones debating will ever change, that rarely happens. They are too far gone. It is the lurkers who do Google searches and those willing to learn who I am after.

Again, I like when creationists debate their nonsense on the internet. The result is that they help immensely with the growing number of atheists and agnostics on our small planet, because of atheists like me, who put up a few good links...again not for them, but for their audience.

Peer Reviewed Creation Science Website Now Up

AIG (Answers In Genesis)is sponsoring new science website
ANSWERS RESEARCH JOURNAL
Peer reviewed papers will be published, but non creationists are frowned upon to be the reviewers.

Here is one of the papers from the site (gotta love this term: creation microbiologists):

p7–10Microbes and the Days of Creation

by Alan L. Gillen


The world of germs and microbes has received much attention in recent years. But where do microbes fit into the creation account? Were they created along with the rest of the plants and animals in the first week of creation, or were they created later, after the Fall? These are some questions that creation microbiologists have been asking in recent years. Ongoing research, based on the creation paradigm, appears to provide some answers to these puzzling questions. The answers to these questions are not explicit in Scripture, so the answers cannot be dogmatic. However, a reasonable extrapolation from biological data and Scripture can be made about the nature of microbes in a fully mature creation. This article attempts to provide reasonable answers to when microbes were created and is meant to stimulate discussion and further research in this area.

Very little has been written in Bible commentaries or in creation literature on the subject of when microbes were created. Some have postulated that microbes were created on a single day of Creation, such as Day Three—when the plants were made. This is partially due to the “seed-like” characteristics that bacteria and fungi have—therefore classifying microbes as plants. In addition, we observe microbes (such as Escherichia coli) isolated in the lab and we tend to think of microbes as individual entities much like birds or fish or animals and, therefore, created on a single day. However, in nature, the vast majority of microbes live in biological partnerships, not in total isolation. The natural symbiosis of microbes with other creatures is the norm. Therefore, we postulate that microbes were created as “biological systems” with plants, animals, and humans on multiple days, as supporting systems in mature plants, animals, and humans. This idea is further supported by the work of Francis (2003). Francis calls microbial symbiotic systems a biomatrix, or organosubstrate. He proposes that microbes were created as a link between macroorganisms and a chemically rich but inert physical environment, providing a surface (i.e., substrate) upon which multicellular creatures can thrive and persist in intricately designed ecosystems. From the beginning, God made His creation fully mature, and complex forms fully formed. This would ensure continuity and stability for the times to come. Although we cannot be certain as to specifically when the Creator made microbes, it is within His character to make entire interwoven, “packaged” systems to sustain and maintain life.

*********************************
Getting a little lazy of late, I posted the above at Raving Atheists. Check the thread out.

I like this response by RA member UBS: "What is Sanskrit for microbe?"

Typical creationist bs. Lots of scientific jargon but next to zero science. Just philosophical nonsense in another attempt to fit in part of the observable world into a literal bible.

I not a scientist, but isn't man made up of bacteria, and don't we need it to survive? I pretty much pointed this out in an earlier post: Revelation: All Life Evolved From Bacteria. So maybe God created microbes on Day 1 or Day 2:) God needed microbes to create all life forms, and since man is created in Gods image, God is full of microbes too. Which came first? God or microbes?

Reflections At 47

I turned 47 yesterday, no fanfare, didn't want any. Another day of reflection, just like Christmas day was, except it was more about me, mortality, and me again.

Time flies, it really does. I can remember things that happened to me in my mid 20's like it was yesterday. OK, not yesterday but 5 years tops.

When you are in your 20's the idea of being in your 70's closing in on death's door is almost non existent. I think it really gets to people in their early 40's, the reality of the situation that is. There is no turning back....unfortunately.

Well at least we aren't living in an age when 47 is our life expectancy, unless of course, if you are living in the third world.

I started thinking about record albums for some reason.

When will I finally throw out my record collection and my record player? I haven't played a record in over 10 years, probably closer to 15. Records are worthless, maybe not all of them. I remember looking in awe when my father threw out an inherited collection of 78's that included Jolson and early Sinatras.

I remember my first record album. I was 9, and I felt peer pressure because I knew nothing about "rock and roll." It was 1970. I asked my mother to buy me a current album. I wound up with The Best of Tommy James and the Shondells....never heard of them. I listened to the album, and I didn't get it. My father weaned me on Sinatra and more Sinatra. I didn't feel any cooler thanks to Tommy James.

I think that I started getting hipper on my own, actually my grade 6 teacher (in 1973), Mr. Nixon, made me hipper. Each Friday from around 11-12 (you know, I can't really remember, it could have been from 2-3), he would play current songs in class. I remember songs like American Pie, Cecilia, Sound of Silence, Sweet City Woman, and lots of Cat Stevens. The first album I actually got because I wanted it, was Sweet City Woman by the Stampeders. I didn't even know they were Canuckians until way after the fact.:


I remember signing the dates on the school books that year, and I also have a vague recollection of thinking what it would be like to sign the year 2000 instead. The year 2000, I would be 39 then. It seemed like light years away.

I went on to buy some Ktel albums. They were the ones that put a bunch of number ones on the same album by different artists. Bought American Pie too.

I then started discovering The Beatles, actually this happened after discovering Paul McCartney in 1974 or 1975. I remember going on one of those charity Walkathons in Toronto. 26 miles. My motivating factor was a puppy love crush. I was really shy, but somehow got the girl of my fancy (her name was not McGill, Lil or Nancy, but Rachel) to join me on the walk. Somehow my friend Eddie (he was a Bad Boy) also wound up tagging along, and by 15th mile, I think Eddie and Rachel became boyfriend and girlfriend. He quit after the 18th mile, his mission was complete, and the last 8 miles and the ride home (Rachel's dad drove us) was awkward for me.
Back to McCartney. The most popular radio station in those years in Toronto was 1050 CHUM. During the walkathon, for some reason, they played Band on the Run at least 10 times that day. I liked it more and more every time I heard it. I had to buy the album.

Whatever happened to Rachel I wonder? I wound up going to a different high school, and I have no idea. Does it really matter anyway? I'm married, and before I know it, I'll be forty fricken eight.

Whatever happened to the blonde girl I used to walk to school with from kindergarten to grade 3? Her name was Ray Beetelstone (or Beetlestone). I moved halfway after grade 3, and never saw her again.

Upon further reflection, I remember really liking some songs when I was 9 to 10. One that comes to mind is As The Years Go By (appropriate for this post):

Mashmakhan was another Canadian band (just found that out now).

Yes Patti (see comments), I forgot about Jeremiah Was A Bullfrog (Joy To The World)...that was a biggie in school (grade 5 I think, my teacher was Mr. Buttons). Lets also not forget "Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head."

Got My 200,000th Visitor

My 200,000th visitor came to my blog on Friday just at 6:32 PM EST. Was it a regular? No. Was it atheist related? No. Was it Jewish related? Yes. The person from Greenville, N.C. wound up at my blog after doing a Google search for "eli manning and jewish." I used to make football predictions on this blog, and I wrote a couple of sentences about Eli. The post made no mention of Jews at all. Google works in mysterious ways, as my blog comes up as the number one match for "eli manning and jewish."

I guess the name "Eli" sounds like it could be Jewish. But Manning? Maybe Mann.

I did learn a few things after looking into Eli Manning (the quarterback for the New York Giants for those who don't know, and the less famous brother of Peyton Manning) and his supposed connection to the Tribe. It seems that Eli Manning's favourite show is Seinfeld. And because of that, a local Green Bay TV station pulled Seinfeld from its schedule this weekend (there is a playoff game in Green Bay today for those who don't know).

Jerry Seinfeld fired back:

Jerry Seinfeld Boosts NFL's Eli Manning With 'Complete Series'
by Staff


Jerry Seinfeld is boosting his local American football team's chances of making this year's (08) Super Bowl - by sending the star quarterback copies of his hit show Seinfeld.

The comedian stepped in after discovering that bosses of Green Bay Wisconsin's Fox Wluk-TV had pulled the show from the schedules ahead of the Green Bay Packers' championship game against the New York Giants on Sunday (20Jan08) - because it is Giants player Eli Manning's favourite show.

Giants fan Seinfeld says, "You think I'm going to take that sitting down?

"I'm going to send Eli a complete collection of Seinfeld Dvds."

A couple more things: I expected to hit 200,000 in late 2007, but lately I've been blogging less and less, causing my hits per day to average under 200. At the beginning of 2007 I was averaging over 250 a day.

And secondly, I discovered another "Reason For Not Having Sex" to add to my growing list. I heard it yesterday....first hand: "It is my birthday today, not yours."

Joy Behar May Not Have Been 100% Accurate But She Was Damn Close

I've always liked Joy Behar (even though she is adamantly against the Iraq war). She seems to be one of the most vocal agnostic voices on television. She has to deal with two Rapturists on The View daily in Elisabeth Hasselbeck and Sherry (I don't know if the world is flat) Shepherd.
Last week, she let the cat out of the bag when it comes to Saints, prophets, and other biblical characters. Well, watch for yourself:


She pissed off a lot of people with her comments. The one that was most typical by theists, the old hole poking technique was used to discredit her. Apparently, not all Saints heard voices (did you know there are over 10,000 of those critters recognized by the Catholic Church including Moses?), and hearing God isn't a prerequisite when it comes to achieving Sainthood. Uppity theists like Father Jonathan Morris (he is the asshat who is a regular of sorts on Fox News) just doesn't realize exactly what Joy was getting at:


The reality is that what Joy was really saying is that drugs like Thorazine prevents any new bibles from popping up.

The Catholics are taking this as a personal insult. Some Catholics are saying if this was said about Muslims, there would be an immediate apology issued to prevent riots. NEWSFLASH: Joys comments here should insult Muslims too. Didn't Mohammed regularly talk to Allah? And Jews too, Moses and God were really tight. Well, of course Moses most probably didn't exist, but if he did, Thorazine could have helped him immensely:)

If God talks to you in 2008, you are nuts. And if God talked to someone 500 or 2000 or 4000 years ago, they were nuts too. Except if realized by the masses, all biblical texts could be converted into psychiatry case studies.