March 16, 2006

Has This Commercial Been on North American TV?



I guess this is too offensive for 45% of America. You know who you are.

Todays Question: Does an Atheist have to believe in evolution?

I say yes. If you say the Atheist may not have an opinion, I would then ask: Do you believe man started off on earth as man?

46 comments:

  1. I must say "no". Evolution is a scientific theory, something that attempts to explain life diversity It is been tested all the time and evidence is gathered that supports it. Evolution is not something we can believe or not believe.

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  2. Dr. Marco, does an Atheist have to accept the theory of evolution, and if not, what is his/her alternative?

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  3. Well, my thought is that an atheist doesn't have to believe anything by default. The only thing atheists have in common, as a matter of course, is that they are without god belief.

    But, having said that, there is ongoing evidence for evolution. Evolution is both a theory and a fact. "Theory" doesn't just mean some idea that was pulled out of a bored scientist's butt on sunday afternoon because they were bored.
    No matter what a contrite believer will try and tell you, evolution is evidential and as such, does not require belief.

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  4. Some theists consider evolution to be a return to animal worship. Believing in evolution seems to imply having faith in evolution and therefore worshipping evolution I have never quite understood the need to worship myself or for that matter the notion that God is upset when people do not worship him. Evolutionary theory is an extremely valuable theory that has great explanatory power. Some would say that one of its weaknesses is that it can be used to explain too much and is thus a tautology. Yet is tautology just another word for obvious fact? As is often the case these discussions all descend (or is it ascend?) to a question of semantics.

    I will throw my money ( 2 cents) on the table and say that an atheist need not believe in evolution. An atheist could have no scientific opinion claiming that he would leave that question to the scientists and specialists much as he would leave the discussion of morals and ethics to the philosophers.

    Nevertheless I believe that merely the existence of a viable alternative theory to divine creation is tremendously important. Just one contrary fact could upset the whole applecart. For instance if man was uniquely physically different from other mammals in that instead of a brain he had a gas that ascended to heaven when he died or something like that. No evolutionary theory could explain it and I’m sure that this would be well within the capabilities of an omnipotent creator. Or if the creation process was continuous, new, fully formed animals could just appear at random. Or even simply having a manufacturers label placed somewhere on the body. Wouldn’t that make things a whole lot easier?

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  5. We’ve come a long way, baby!

    Does an atheist have to accept Evolution? As a biological mechanism, of course they do—no different than accepting being stabbed in the eye will cause discomfort. I see no problem in accepting Evolution as an atheist so long as anything remotely dogmatic is removed from consideration.

    That said, there are far trickier questions to be pondered by atheists—many of which involve all sorts of prejudicial dogmas that atheists take for granted. For instance: advocating the “inalienable rights” of all people. Huh? Says who? I’ve just reduced the universe into its most scientifically reducible state and built it back up again inserting the “evolution” of human beings and the evolution of all of their crazy ideas. Arbitrary nonsense!

    An atheist doesn’t accept any all-powerful progenitor of the human race or ultimate arbiter of human morality and law. An atheist lives in a universe fashioned by cosmic chance and astronomical accidents; and as far as people and animals are concerned, lives in a world populated by highly complex chemical robots. Humans, as mere molecular replicators propped up by calcium rods and wrapped in fat, oily shells have no more rights than celery, window glass or blacks driving in expensive cars.

    For the atheist to claim interest in protecting peoples’ rights or to advocate saving people from the untoward advances of hostile religious dogmas is to make judgments, judgments based on values, and since said values cannot possibly spring from some source divine or greater than mankind itself, this makes the entire self-serving enterprise wholly arbitrary and frivolous! Yes, it may be arbitrary but it’s a rational choice we make for the betterment of all mankind. Well, I hate to break it to you but the atheist, at his death, will be soulless, reeking heap of fetid meat. His contributions to the betterment of society and righteous sense of accomplishment derived from that will be gone, null, vanquished, lost to the stoic blackness of time and space. And ultimately, when all the universe dissolves and “every creature shall be purified” there won’t be a single monkey on earth, angel in heaven, or super ego pouring through the cosmic volumes of the Akashic Record to give a damn.

    God, I wish I was dead.

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  6. So, you're a Buddhist then Mr Devareaux?

    "Humans, ......have no more rights than celery,.."

    Have you lost your mind? We say who has rights and who doesn't. We, humans, make these laws in order to make our lives safer and more comfortable. Eat a human like you would a stick of celery and you will soon be facing the consequences of your actions.

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  7. Angloamerican,

    So, you're a Buddhist then Mr Devareaux?

    I'm Latvian Orthodox. Obviously.

    We say who has rights and who doesn't. We, humans, make these laws in order to make our lives safer and more comfortable.

    Allow me to repeat me:

    Yes, it may be arbitrary but it’s a rational choice we make for the betterment of all mankind. Well, I hate to break it to you but the atheist, at his death, will be soulless, reeking heap of fetid meat. His contributions to the betterment of society and righteous sense of accomplishment derived from that will be gone, null, vanquished, lost to the stoic blackness of time and space. And ultimately, when all the universe dissolves and “every creature shall be purified” there won’t be a single monkey on earth, angel in heaven, or super ego pouring through the cosmic volumes of the Akashic Record to give a damn.

    In whose eyes are you making society "better" for? Notwithstanding that "better" is a judgment call; judgments are based on values; and values are arbitrary in an accidental world without meaning (atheism), in the cosmological blink of an eye your "better" society" is as good as having never existed once those frail, solipsistic human minds have ceased to exist. All that hard work for nothing, eh??

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not disagreeing with the atheist premise, but I think your reaction proves my point that there is a measure of dogma and "faith" associated with god-murdering atheism nonetheless. You can't argue that life is pointless and then argue for the improvement of pointlessness. Or maybe you can. Convince me. That's all I ask.

    Eat a human like you would a stick of celery and you will soon be facing the consequences of your actions.

    Are you saying that cannabalism has never been an accepted practice? Those people-eaters made choices based on arbitrary beliefs and their practices were thus acceptable. Some other people came along and made choices on equally arbitrary beliefs and deemed those practices unacceptable. You're kind of proving my point here and that, oddly enough, isn't what I had hoped for.

    Oh, like you've never eaten a young Fillipino girl before. Shut up.

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  8. Morals are man made. They have even evolved in us. We know it is wrong to kill another human being, atheist and theist alike.
    As an atheist, I realize this our only chance at life. I'm happy with that realization.
    I don't hate god, god does not exist. I live in a real world.

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  9. Sorry, BEAJ. I ran out of people to harrass on my site. ;)

    Morals are man made. They have even evolved in us.

    Now that may very well be. I'm sure we can agree that the human brain comes pre-programmed with certain information and that a fundamental set of moral prerogatives (located in some module in the brain) has, like any other trait, been developed and passed down through the human species. Good for us. My point was that promoting the betterment of society, for example, through those good morals, already is a contradiction of atheist nature. If all things are ultimately pointless, then there's no point in pretending that we're making things "better" for posterity. Posterity for who when humans cease to exist and the earth is swallowed up into nothingness? What posterity when we've become the tree falling in the forest and no one is around to hear us fall?

    I'm not disagreeing, as I said. It's just that these arguments about moral evolution, about leaving legacies or making one's mark on history for the better--that I hear many atheists repeat--strike me as being dependant on certain "weaknesses" one might be so inclined to attribute to the overtly religious mind. It's as if the room is never quite empty when you're an atheist; there's always that "other" standing over your shoulder.

    Then again, I'm also of the mind that ours' are monkeys' and we're not exactly equipped to answer such questions, let alone know exactly how to pose them.

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  10. Atheists have the right to believe or not believe in evolution. It is their choice to make.

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  11. You have to live in the here and now. My hypothetical atheist above leaves such questions to the philosophers and gets on with enjoying life. He need not believe in evolution.

    I suspect that there may be some truth in the theory of eternal recurrence. Yeah, you all had forgotten about that, huh? What’s the point of your pointlessness then?

    "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything immeasurably small or great in your life must return to you-all in the same succession and sequence-even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned over and over, and you with it, a grain of dust. "
    -Nietzsche

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  12. Isaac Newton said, "I feign no hypothesis" which, in the parlance of his day meant, "I don't promise that anything is true."

    It is not necessary to believe in evolution, but it certainly comes in handy when you try to explain why the genomic sequence of a chimp is more than 98% indentical to a human's.

    What gets me is that most people seem to think that this uncertainty of fact is a particular problem exclusive to biology.
    Perhaps the most scientific and exact of all disciplines is Mathematics, and it is full of non-facts. Any calculation containing the value Pi is automatically and necessarily wrong because the value is unknown. The entire branch of Calculus which enables us to calculate the curvature of an airliner's wing, is also based on theories and not facts.

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  13. Being the evidence so overwhelming, it is highly unlikely that a rational person (I see an atheists as a rational person) will not accept the theory of evolution as the theory that explains life diversity on Earth. If a rational person disagrees, with evolution as a theory, he or she has to provide an altenative hypothesis. By alternative hypothesis I do not mean beliefs like "Intelligent Design", which involve a supernatural creator.

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  14. Just to play devil's advocate a bit,(or maybe I should say God's advocate on second thought) while evolution can explain well how lobed-fin fishes could evolve into amphibians that could colonize land, as the lobes could slowly evolve into legs, it does not explain very well how a bird's wings may have evolved from a different structure that was not a wing. Proto-wings, which would not be developed enough to lift an animal into flight, would be negatively selected by evolution and disappear because stubby winglets offer no advantage. Now there are theories about proto-wings as "cooling-devices" for cold-blooded animals and may have then been positively selected to continue wing development, but these are not intellectually pleasing explanations. Also, there is the "glide before you fly" explanation that I like better. Also if you believe the "blind watchmaker" concept of evolution, wings may have developed rapidly in bird ancesters by the following mechanism: Sexual Selection, if pre-bird females found larger wing-stubs more attractive in their mates, this would accelerate their development many times more rapidly than natural selection, then at some point a secondary function to these structures could be exploited.......flying. Once the flying part took place, the selection pressure to keep it going would be enormous because it is such an advantage.

    Hmmmm...So I guess Evolution wins!...We should all believe it, and to show respect, always spell it with a capital "E".

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  15. I like the glide before fly theory. It seems to be noticable with insects. The flying squirrel. Of course the bat went a few steps more than the squirrel.

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  16. God said “And it shall come to pass, [that] him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.”

    -------------------

    Which raises an interesting question, is Elisha as deadly as the two warriors Hazael and Jehu?

    To examine the question, first we must look at the weather; we must study systems that are dynamic and sensitive to initial conditions. Can a butterfly in South America really cause snow storms to come late in North America simply by flapping its wings? We don’t really know. We can use computers to model small systems and we can see that the initial conditions affect the outcome. But the question for the butterfly would be, are its movements amplified enough or are they canceled out and lost by the system that it is in?

    A prophet speaks some words and on some people they have an effect and on some people they do not. If even one person believes and is changed by the words of the prophet then amplification has occurred and that person will also spread the words to the next person and the next. The words will continue to move through the population day after day, year after year and century after century. Not all words have this effect, but those that do can survive the centuries.

    A modern day example of this type of amplification is China. In 1949 there were 700,000 Christians in China but due to severe persecution and attempts to suppress Christianity; China now has from 10 to 39 million Christian. The reason for the range of 10-39 million is that no one really knows the true number.

    When the Chinese began their persecution the Christians fled for their lives and every where that they went they spread the Word of God. The Christians soon went into hiding in plain sight. The imperative is not to avoid torture, imprisonment or death, but to spread the Word. I would imagine that a true believer could probably go for a month or so with out speaking about God, but not much longer.

    So yes, Elisha is far more deadly, for we are still caught in the storm that the prophets ignited thousands of years ago.

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  17. Oh my God, I'm going to have to read that comment above again again for all eternity if eternal recurrence is true.

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  18. To angloamerican,

    I am fairly sure that you are immune to the Word of God since you are an atheist, but just to be safe let's test it out.

    "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    The same was in the beginning with God.
    All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
    And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
    ----------
    Of the 20 or 30 atheists that will read my comments, I would find it significant if even one of them would become a true believer. So play fair and always read the quotes from the bible that I am providing.

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  19. Bible Anon doesn't bother me, I guess he's found a convenient way to "witness" so he must feel good about that. And if his/her leaps of faith are as broad as his/her leaps in logic, this must be a very religious person indeed. Finally, if the moderator lets him post.....Hmmmmmm.....is this Bible Anon really YOUR alter ego B.E.A.J?

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  20. Why wouldn't I let him post. The only reason I am moderating right now is that I got a couple of spam posts and I also have a message board fruitcake that keeps posting old message board posts over and over and over again.
    I'm trying to figure out which is easier, moderating or deleting.
    I've been accused of not being an Atheist before, and only Agnostic. But I've never been accused until now of being a schitzoid believer.

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  21. Oh I think you should moderate, and my question was of course, a bit of levity

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  22. Anonymous,
    I don’t understand why you think that my reading quotes from the Bible would make me believe. Yet I am sure that whatever created the world was good as it enabled me to be here now and enjoying the glass of wine that I am drinking. I do believe in God but only as metaphor for that which we hold to be the highest good. So by saying that God created the world the Bible is saying that whatever made the world was good. I do not disagree. A problem occurs when people imagine too much like God as old man with flowing beard or God as god of love or some other such nonsense. The Bible is written in a highly stylised way and is to be read more as poetry than prose. Sometimes a parable is a much more powerful way of getting a point across and Jesus spoke in parables too but they were not meant to be literal stories. The Bible is a guide written by people in ancient times to express the things they had learnt over generations.

    Anyway why not think of a name other than anonymous. It’s kind of fun. How about Sword of Truth or Shield of Righteousness or even just Pilgrim – that way we can distinguish between you and the psycho anonymous. I call myself AngloAmerican because I am English but my heart is American.

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  23. From the book of Isaiah:
    They that make a graven image [are] all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they [are] their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
    Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image [that] is profitable for nothing?

    ----------------

    I never could understand why atheist or other people always seem to describe God as “an old man with flowing beard”. If Christians describe God in that manner then they are in error. Half the bible states that they should not create an image of God.

    I did not want to set up and account since it requires an email address and I did not want to receive any spam associated with this endeavor. So what I will do is set up and account and provide a phony email address if the moderator will allow that. That way I can post my comments and you can know that they are from me and I won’t receive any spam on my address.

    After examining the website, I can assure you that the Bacon Eating Atheist Jew is about as far from God as a man can get, without breaking any of the laws of man.

    As for post bible quotes, it would take a miracle for a true atheist to convert and be healed, the person that I am looking will be the one, that when he reads the quotes, one of the messages will resonate in them. If you say that you are not that person, then perhaps the next person that reads them will be the right person.

    An interesting concept in science is that order can emerge out of chaos. To some one like me, that is the same as saying that God can command that the light shine out of the darkness. The website that we are posting to is in my opinion a place that is filled with darkness. I want to see if the light can truly shine out darkness.

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  24. You aren't required to give your email addy. And I don't think you get any spam because of it because I use mine all the time and I don't seem to get any.
    Atheists don't describe god as anyting. And if anyone gives god an old man with a beard look it is Christians.
    Bible quotes will not convert any Atheists I know.

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  25. So God doesn't have a beard..hmmm.

    What about this picture of God?

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  26. To angloamerican, what can I say other than some Christians can not follow simple instructions. No images means no images.

    I am only responsible for my own sins.

    There are more than a billion examples of people who have heard the words in the bible and have believed and have been converted, so the process is reproduceable.

    -------------------
    From the bible:

    "For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

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  27. I seriously doubt that over a billion people have been converted. The cult I was brought up in relied mainly on breeding their own members and I suspect that most of those billion have been born into it too.

    It does seem that certain Christians have great faith in the power of the word of God which is the Bible as if simply quoting the words will have some shamanistic effect on the listener/reader. It aint gonna work around here. I have read the Bible several times over and am not some savage just emerged from the jungle you know.

    As for no images, that does sound rather dull and rather Taliban like. I suppose you approved of the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas too.

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  28. Oh come now, anyone who did not believe the Word of God would have left just like you did. Since you doubt that a billion people have converted over a 2000 year period, then in your mind how many people would you estimate?

    I have gone to place where everything is stacked against success. I have warned you of exactly what I am doing. The only way that anyone at this place will hear the Word of God and convert is if God produces a miracle.

    I honestly believe that if the timing, the words and need are met, then even the most lost person can find God and believe.

    -------------
    From Micah:
    Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, [and] bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?
    Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, [or] with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn [for] my transgression, the fruit of my body [for] the sin of my soul?
    He hath shewed thee, O man, what [is] good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

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  29. LfromD


    My estimate is three million, how's that? Pulled it out of thin air actually, much like you did. Yes, three million roads to Damascus, the rest were either born into it or just went along because their spouses/tribal leaders/parents did. Peer pressure, that sort of thing.

    So, did you approve of the destruction of the Buddhas? I have a Christian friend who could not deny that his religion would have approved of destroying them too, so I am just kind of interested.

    Actually, I think I do do justly, love mercy and walk humbly with my metaphorical God. How's that?

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  30. AngloAmerican

    I am of the opinion that you should guide but never try to force people to follow God. I would never keep a Buddha statue in my house, since that could be interpreted as idol worshipping. I would not destroy some else’s statue since that prevents people from making a clear choice of whom they will serve.

    My method is very simple; I post the bible verses and then ask if they resonate in some ones soul. If they do not, I then move on to the next person or the next verse. There is nothing difficult about this approach, if the Word of God can not reach or heal a soul, then what if anything can my words do?

    Tell me, have you seen the cartoons at this “Bacon Eating Atheist Jew” website? The cartoonist pictures himself as standing before God and interrogating God with questions that he believes that God can not answer.

    I also in vision myself as standing before God and asking a simple question:
    “Why do the innocent, the children, the old and the weak have to suffer?”

    I am expecting one of two answers:
    If I am going to heaven then the answer should that my mind is to small to comprehend an answer of that magnitude.
    If I am going to hell then I expect an answer in such detail that the answer itself will be more than my mind can handle or suffer.
    ------------
    I have decided to include two bible quotes where God asks questions.

    From Jonah:
    And he prayed unto the LORD, and said, I pray thee, O LORD, [was] not this my saying, when I was yet in my country? Therefore I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou [art] a gracious God, and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repentest thee of the evil.
    Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for [it is] better for me to die than to live.
    Then said the LORD, Doest thou well to be angry?

    From Job:
    And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
    Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
    Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
    But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

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  31. “Why do the innocent, the children, the old and the weak have to suffer?”


    Evolution has produced man, its mouthpiece, so now in a round about way can answer this age old question. The combination of replication, mutation and selection has caused all the suffering and joy. You can call these three, evolution’s trinity. Evolution has no feeling, has no idea what suffering it is causing and therefore allows it. There that didn’t blow your mind did it?

    I had a “Road to Damascus” moment when I realised that the greatest creative process in the universe had no intelligence as we know it.. Indeed intelligence, feelings, pity, would hamper its awesome creativity. Man’s noble struggle now is to fight and tame this cruel power. We will do all there is in our power to thwart the cruel aspects of replication, mutation and natural selection, at least where it has power over us.

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  32. I expect a commercial designed for the human intellect to 'BUY" something is based on more fact that the perverbial 'TELEVISION'
    episode or movie designed to entertain a certain age group by evaluation of a 'RELIGIOUS' parent
    who monitors everything their children WATCH.

    Hmmm. Now we know the meaning of Love.
    Parents protecting their kids from COMMERCIALS.

    LOL..Yeah, man. The Scriptures are a story of the Hebrew FAITH. Would you want to tell your kids we were all protozoa? How would you explain our current form?

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  33. We come from the best protozoa mind you not those skanky ones.I tell my kids that all the time.

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  34. I believe that the greatest creative process in this or any other universe is intelligent; I call it God for a lack of a better name. Do I understand all of the details? No, but then neither does anyone else.

    But for the sake of this part of the discussion, I will grant you evolution. In which case I would be a product of selection, mutation and reproduction, so from your perspective, I seek God and I have a need to share this information because I have evolved to do that. Since a man cannot alter his genetic information, but can only pass changes to his offspring, then I will always believe in God.

    The percentages of those that believe versus those that do not believe would be fairly constant in country after country and year after year. Christians have revivals for a reason, people become disconnected and they change. They realize that something is different, wrong and they seek to correct that change.

    God is infinite in the true meaning of the word infinite. The universe and evolution are but a detail to an intelligence that is infinite.

    ------------
    And God said, ”Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, [It is] truth.
    Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. “

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  35. You know, the more you think about an infinite God the more impossible he becomes. So God knows everything that has been and is to become. He already knows about every possible combination of things therefore does not think of anything new because he already knows it. By being infinite and You know, the more you think about an infinite God the more impossible he becomes. So God knows everything that has been and is to become. He already knows about every possible combination of things therefore does not think of anything new because he already knows it. By being infinite and omnipotent he is actually severely limited. He cannot create anything new because nothing is new to him.
    If you think about it hard enough LfromD he becomes only possible as a metaphor for all things past and present and in the future. Think a little harder and he becomes unnecessary to explain much if anything. Your ideas are pretty much primitive anthropomorphism.

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  36. Ooops my cut and paste from Word went severly wrong there. Still, maybe you get the idea. It's ironic that being infinite and omnipotent can be limiting.

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  37. Ask him how come amputees never get to grow back limbs through prayer and watch him stumble or hide. God is limited when it comes to that miracle or he just doesn't do amputees. Just cancer, blindness, deafness, and leprocy.

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  38. I believe that the situation is even stranger than you are describing. You forgot to add that we also have free will and that our decisions seem to affect the outcome for ourselves and those around us. Can any decision be so small that it does not in some way affect the future course of history, from deciding to eat an apple or deciding to start a war?

    In my view of the world, it is impossible to know all of the consequences of any decision that I make. I trust God to guide me to the best possible outcome.

    ---------
    I have never heard of anyone praying that an amputation be restored. In the bible there is Ezekiel’s vision in chapter 37 of the dead bones coming to life, but I always accepted that as being a vision and not an occurrence.

    Come to think of it, when Jesus appeared to his disciples after the resurrection he still had all of his wounds. I guess you are right; there are some miracles that God will not perform.

    Most of my prayers are not for things, but for understanding. It seems to clear out mind and allows me to focus better.

    -------
    From Matthew:
    “Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
    And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive. “

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  39. "It seems to clear out mind and allows me to focus better."

    Whatever gets you through the night..., as John used to say.
    Actually I don't really want to take away anyones faith in whatever they want to believe as long as it's harmless.

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  40. My father is on dialysis; three times a week he travels 40 miles to a city where he undergoes a 3 1/2 hour treatment. He is in fairly good condition; there are some people at the clinic who also have diabetes. The ones with diabetes are the ones who usually windup having their legs amputated.

    The amazing thing is the way that they seem to have struck up a friendship with each other. They are always happy to see each other. You would think that depression would be rampant in such a situation. The weakest people in the world seem to have the strongest faith and it carries them through the most trying period.

    -----------
    From Isaiah:
    He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry [them] in his bosom, [and] shall gently lead those that are with young.

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  41. It certainly would be nice to have a supernatural friend while enduring such trials.
    I've always thought that a human is just a tragedy waiting to happen. I read the other day that the first human may have already been born that will live a thousand years - what tragedies they would see in their lifetime. We humans get judged quite harshly, I believe, considering all the horrors we have to put up with. Not that I believe in judgement of course except by your own conscience.
    Anyway, it's not all darkness around here you know, we all would believe if their was some solid evidence. Yet how can we choose between all the faiths? Which is right? Who can really tell? Are all religions simply there to give hope in a world of inescapable tragedy?

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  42. God offers hope to those that believe. No one can just choose a religion, they actually have to believe or it has no value.

    Believe me, I understand the problem, people want solid evidence that a spiritual being exists. It is not possible to show anyone what I have experienced. The best thing that I can do is set up a situation in which the same kind of experience might manifest itself in some else. I will probably never know if I succeed.

    I have not been mistreated when I have posted to this site, so I cannot complain. I wonder if other religious people post to sites of this kind.

    One of the things that I have had to accept is that I can expect to receive mercy from God. Extending the same mercy onto others is a work in progress.
    ----------
    This is from Luke:
    And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as [his] eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

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