From Digg News:
Muslims on YouTube have formed several groups where users and videos that criticize Islam (which they define as "Hate Speech") are listed and mass-flagged as abuse. YouTube seems to remove videos and sometimes even ban users automatically. Muslims claim that they only flag videos that have violated YouTube's TOS, but this has been been proven false
A group on Youtube called United Muslims put up a hit list of Youtube members they wanted to ban. The thing is, that they can't handle the truth. Sure, some of the videos go overboard, but so do many anti-Christian, anti-Israel, etc. videos that don't get banned by agenda. And as far as I'm concerned, shouldn't get banned. I've even seen Holocaust denying videos on Youtube. I'm all for free speech, and as I've said before, the nuts (like the YECs) will find that the internet is their worst enemy.
I think Youtube should stop allowing members to control comments. If someone wants to refute a message, they should be allowed to do so. Many of these sites simply delete comments that debunk the videos in question.
It is funny that the Muslims perceive their biggest enemies on Youtube to be the Youtube Atheists. Generally very politically liberal, I find it refreshing that so many Atheists are making videos exposing the Koran and Radical Islam.
Most Atheist videos are pretty much anti-religion, and mostly mock Christian belief, but that is because most Atheists are ex-Christians.
Here is the video that got Nick Gisburne, Youtube Atheist, banned. In case you haven't seen it, it is just verses from the Koran set to music:
I'm glad this flew back in the faces of the banning Muslims. Many Atheists simply uploaded it and posted it on their own sites. If Muslims want to debunk these Koran phrases, I say let em. But banning videos like this isn't the answer.
UPDATE: New post written May 14th, 2007
My friend at Eye on the World has had his account banned a few times on Youtube. He puts together many of his own videos, including one last year, that I co-wrote with Elder of Ziyon (who did most of the writing). I did the singing (I'll never make it on Idol):
If youtube doesn't smarten up, there's other sites where you can post videos, but it won't be as effective as youtube.
ReplyDeleteThis is a situation where the 'wisdom' of the masses fails us. If they're gonna have a 'report abuse' button, and ban content/people automatically, at least have a 'report no abuse' button to counteract that.
I recently did a search for "Jewish" on you tube, looked through 15 pages or so of them and it seemed that the nearly half of them were hate, slander, lies, or paranoia. Disgusting.
ReplyDeletegoes with the turf, amishat
ReplyDeleteI was censored once, when I posted a video from another site showing Muslims cutting and bloodying themselves in the annual Ashura ritual. (See some pictures here: http://sweetness-light.com/archive/the-muslim-ashura-festival-and-child-abuse )
ReplyDeleteI didn't comment or anything - it was just a video of a religious rite that was considered offensive by YouTube.
I support a ban of the second video, while the actual video on its own would be fine, the song that was added to it is way over the line. It genuinely offended me, and I'm an atheist. I take issue with the fact that you generalized all Muslims as being extremist terrorists.
ReplyDeleteThe first video I think is fine, as it simply shows quotations accompanied by music. so nothing wrong there really other then the quotations possibly being taking out of context. however I wouldn't see it as being enough to ban a video
Johnny, I think I got taken off blogger's index in a similar manner.
ReplyDeleteOther options will develop quickly if this crap continues.
Amishav, it is funny how they allow the lies but give you a fight when you want to post truths.
Elder, what can I say, the truth is too humiliating for many Muslims, they'd rather pretend it doesn't exist.
The Pat, the second video is not condemning all Muslims, it is poking fun and condemning all Muslims who take to the streets who cry and commit violence when it comes to cartoons and such.
BEAJ, so i suppose the silly music in the background makes it ok, to say that Muslims only want rockets, its ok to say they want to bomb train stations its ok to say they want dead jews and its ok to say they want beheading anyone who doesn't convert.
ReplyDeleteIts pretty hard to believe that you would be surprised that people would take offense to this. You clearly say Muslims in the song implying all of them are like this.
You wouldn't like it much if someone made a video calling atheist mass murderers and communists would you? In fact I know you wouldn't as you've said so in your "Trouble With Atheism: Yeah, Dolts Don't Know What Atheism Is" post. many atheist participated in mass killings of political dissidents during the communist era. I suppose then it would be justified to poke fun at those atheist who went and shot dissidents and purposefully cause famines, it would also be ok to just say atheists and leave it at that.
It seems to me that you have a vendetta against Muslims, and are using your atheism as validation or an excuse for your prejudices and borderline hatred for a whole religious group. In your post on how to deal with Islam you suggest using "evolution to our advantage" and bombing them into the 21st century. You basically suggest they are unevolved and inferior you also said "Muslim countries are breeding intelligence out of their gene pools" if this isn't a racist comment I don't know what is. Dont tell me you cant be racist against Muslims because they aren't a race by that same logic you cant be a racist against a jew. You yourself consider them to be a race when you call for racial profiling.
you wonder why atheist are the most hated group in the united states? maybe it is because of videos like that.Such videos give atheists a bad name. All they do is detract from our reasoned arguments against theism and prefer to insult and further spread ignorance. The point of atheism i thought was to pursue the ideal of truth and not to cloud it with prejudices and hate.
I am not surprised people would take offense to this. I definitely didn't imply all Muslims. I am implying all those who would take to the streets to burn cars, etc.
ReplyDeleteI have a vendetta against Muslims. Yes. Not all Muslims, only Muslims who lie, who believe terror is tolerable, those who are terrorists, those who enable terrorists, and those who hate. I also don't like the overall religion with respect to their Sharia laws and treatment of women.
Arab Muslim countries have been breeding intelligence out of their population, that is what I believe to be fact. Call it whatever you want.
"The point of atheism i thought was to pursue the ideal of truth and not to cloud it with prejudices and hate."
************************
No, Atheism is just a disbelief in God or the supernatural. Most Atheists come to this conclusion by examining the evidence and facts. What I have examined when it comes to Islam in general is not very appealing to me and a major cause for concern.
the pat is a moron, Muslims are not a "race". Islam is a religion, it is an ideology, it is a political/religious ideology but not a race.
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between communists killing 'political' dissidents, and muslims killing people for religious reasons. The first case shows that communism can cause evil, the second shows that islam, and religion in general, can cause evil.
ReplyDeleteI still don't see any cases of killing in the name of atheism.
BEAJ-
ReplyDeleteGreat post! You Tube is appeasing much the same as Yahoo is.
Where could I get a copy of both of these clips?
Pat:
ReplyDeleteyou wonder why atheist are the most hated group in the united states? maybe it is because of videos like that.Such videos give atheists a bad name.
Um..bullshit. First of all, atheists are NOT the "most hated group." The Atheist (note the difference: atheist vs. "Atheist") evangelists who spend all their time bashing the vast majority of Americans (believers in God) are pretty much despised, but regular ol' "who cares if you believe in God" atheists (i.e. BEAJ) who don't go around calling all believers "ignorant fundies" and don't push Atheism on everyone else don't bother anyone. As far as I know, BEAJ has a lot of readers and friends who are believers, and I haven't seen anyone trying to "convert" him, because he doesn't try to "convert" us.
And the video? There's nothing in it that would give atheists a bad name, any more than it'd give any non-Muslim a "bad name." Anyway, I've seen videos that could be considered far more offensive, and they could have been done by faithful Christians and Jews. (I don't even know what religion most of them have, nor do I care.)
Why SHOULDN'T anyone make fun of fanatic Islam, anyway? If you're not an extremist, why would you be bothered?
Personally, I think Islam is a ridiculous, plagiarized, corrupt "religion" that was invented by a lunatic (and a pedophile, to boot). I'm sorry for the good people who were born into that warped religion (really, an ideology) and realize "not all Muslims are bad," but it doesn't change my view of Islam.
BEAJ - do you have a YouTube account? Email me your user name!
ReplyDeleteBEAJ:
ReplyDeleteIt all depends on what you consider "hate speech" and no amount of carefully constructed wording of any TOS can avoid the fact that what constitutes hate-speech and what doesn't is very subjective. It depends on your perspective: we all take offence at when certain things are said about us but don't care that much when similar things get said about others.
Broadly speaking I'm against any form of censorship but even that's a simplicism. Take e.g. that song that plays on Mad Zionist's site, which depicts Mohammad as a paedophile. If Mohammad was a real, living person he would have every right to demand a retraction and threaten with a lawsuit for character defamation or libel, no question about it. Other similar comments are borderline, it's definitely a grey area.
And your assertion that Arabs/Muslims are breeding 'intelligent genes out of their gene pool' is delusional pseudo-science: it really makes no sense whatsoever. It's because it's simply untrue that it's xenophobic to believe it: it's actually very similar to the sort of anti-Semitic garbage that has been bandied around about Jews for centuries, regarding their alleged inferiority (or also their perceived superiority, depending who you listen to), inbreeding etc etc.
ttueoop, I'm not sure how to download a Youtube video to a disk or computer if that is what you are asking. I'm sure there is a way though.
ReplyDeleteHi Beth, I appreciate your comments, I just want to correct you a bit. Recent surveys have stated that the least likely person to be voted President is an Atheist (and yes, I have a habit of capitalizing it, probably because it is part of my ID, and probably because I capitalize almost every group)
I do have the odd person emailing me to try to convert me, maybe one a month.
I have no problem with anyone who does their religion thingy at home or in their place of worship. I am totally against religion in government or public schools (outside of humanity, religious, or mythological studies)
I don't try to "convert" but do try to educate on my blog and on my new Youtube account, and I definitely poke fun at those who think the earth is less than 10,000 years old, and those who argue against evolution....but usually they come to me, I don't go to them unless I find a post that bashes Atheists.
I consider myself a realist more than anything and that is why I recognize Islam to be the biggest danger to the future of mankind over everything other than a natural disaster (like another meteorite).
My Youtube account is linked on my sidebar under GREAT SITES at the bottom. I'll email it to you though.
I have friends who are Young Earth Creationists, and I know one thing......they don't want to cut my head off, they just think I'm going to hell...but we can laugh about it in the meantime.
Gert, there is evidence that in Saudi Arabia that inbreeding occurs frequently, there is also evidence that inbreeding can cause many genetical defects. I also am of firm belief that if two geniuses had a child, and died and the kid went to live at the home of a family of average intelligence, that the child would have a much higher probability of being more intelligent than a child who was the product of two people who were of lesser intelligence under the same circumstances. In other words, I don't think every human is born with equal intelligence and equal ability to become genius. Until proven wrong........that is what I believe. And it makes sense that if the smartest people in a society either leave or die before they have children, that society will be intellectually inferior, especially in the long run.
Yep, I got two of my YouTube profiles killed but am in the process of re-uploading my videos under a new one.
ReplyDeleteYouTube got worse after it was purchased by Google.
I've been "banned" from Yahoo many times for calling attention to the truth. Most can't handle the truth.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard being an atheist these days.
"the pat is a moron, Muslims are not a "race". Islam is a religion, it is an ideology, it is a political/religious ideology but not a race."
ReplyDeleteThen why is it correct for him to use genetic/racial arguments as justification for their actions? If it is just an ideology, then his arguments make no sense.
@ beth, many articles beg to http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/viewArticle.asp?articleID=7253
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigotryprejudice/a/HateCrimes.htm
http://atheism.about.com/b/a/255008.htm
http://clipmarks.com/clipmark/646931ED-5AE8-4F4D-91C2-75A1002086E9/
http://movingoutmovingon.bloghi.com/2007/02/24/america-s-most-hated.html
That was after just typing "atheist most hated" it certainly seems we are a rather disliked group. It gives atheist a bad name because it was put out under you tube atheist thus associating it with atheists.
Why not make fun of radical Islam? there is no reason. However there is also no reason to lump all Muslims together with the radicals . If you do that your making fun of all of Islam. There is a reason to not make fun of someones religious beliefs. Its the same reason you don't make fun of someone for making a mistake on a test or getting anything else wrong. To do so is simply rude and makes you look like an ass.
@Beaj I'm sorry but when you say "Muslims want X" you are implying that all Muslims want this. It may not be your intention but it is implied to anyone who is not inside your head at the moment.
@ jhony
The soviet union considered everything to be a political issue so a political dissident could easily be a priest who was to vocal about religion. It could be a worker who mentioned he missed going to church both those things could easily get you a one way ticket to Siberia and death. Ir is safe to say that USSR has done its fair share of killing in the name of atheism which was part of their communist ideology.
The Pat, my ideas are not racial, but ideologically founded. In other words, the Muslims in the middle east for the most part are part of a culture that doesn't breed education and enlightenment, but death and ignorance.
ReplyDeleteIf the intelligent Muslims are taken out of the population (and go West for instance), the ones left to breed are of lesser intelligence, and as explained above to Gert in my last comment, I am a firm believer that two stupid people will have a greater chance of producing a genetically stupider person. Of course this isn't always the case, but I'm a firm believer in evolution, and region(environment)/adaption/survival is pretty much against a "smart" Muslim, and in fact, less intelligent Muslims have a better chance to make it through life in most middle eastern countries.
Call it racist if you like, to me it is just common sense.
Ok lets start with you assumption that the intelligent Muslims leave the area.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with that is only the Muslims with the means to leave are leaving. Those with the means to leave are the educated and whoever can afford it.What if a Muslim who is rather intelligent wants to leave, but just doesn't have the means to leave? Wouldn't that mean this intelligent Muslim is then forced to stay and "breed" thus passing on his/her intelligence?
evidence of the fact that there are intelligent Muslims is perhaps seen in their effective insurgency against the western powers. Of course it doesn't take a genius to shoot a gun or blow themselves up. However it would take a rather intelligent group of individuals to be able to fund and maintain an effective insurgency against the most powerful nation in the world for 4 years and counting. These guys are able to keep fighting the coalition for several years without all the high tech advantages of coalition. Despite all the security measures they continue to be able to set of bombs daily in the Iraqi capital. They have also managed to set off what is practically a civil war right under the coalitions collective noses.
The fact that they are giving the most advanced armies on the planet, with some of the best military minds, implies that there are some smart Muslims kicking around.
If the Muslims are as stupid as you think they are, what does that say about the coalition?
The coalition could go all out to destroy the insurgents, but that would completely destroy Iraq.
ReplyDeletePlus they have numbers. It takes only a few to "succeed" with a suicide bomb.
And I'm not saying that all Muslims in the middle east have lower IQs, but the tendency is for Muslims on average to have less intelligence.
Sure, some intelligent Muslims slip through the cracks. I have a few Muslim bloggers on my blogroll who live in the middle east who might even be smarter than me. But I'm talking tendencies here.
BEAJ:
ReplyDeleteAnd I'm not saying that all Muslims in the middle east have lower IQs, but the tendency is for Muslims on average to have less intelligence.
"There are only two things that are infinite: the universe, & human stupidity. & I'm not so sure about the universe." - Einstein.
The war is being fought on many different fronts.
ReplyDeleteBEAJ:
ReplyDeletePersonally I'm beginning to think you've been reading too much Israpundit: they (well, Ted "mad dog" Belman) published some "studies" on Saudi Arabian 'interbreeding' and of course on the IQ of different parts of the world. For the latter the results were "predictable" to say the least: the US came out #1 on average IQ, followed closely of course by Israel (#2), with the Arab/Muslim countries dangling at the bottom. Now why doesn't such a result surprise me since as Ted and his gang are amongst the worst and most rabid Muslim haters and will support Israel to the death, no matter what, come hell or high water?
This is one of the reasons why Stephen Jay Gould has argued that IQ is essentially racist science.
By believing that interbreeding can somehow lead to lower IQ in an entire population group you'd have to conclude also that the Jewish people are definitely on the way out because it's one of the smallest gene pools.
As regards Muslims, it also negates the fact that a very sizable part are not Arabs or Middle Easterners.
You're applying quack-science to a non-existent problem. Not very smart...
Gert, are you wilfully ignoring my points.
ReplyDelete1) My assumption is that not all people are born with the same potential intelligence and that smarter parents will on average produce children with higher potential intelligence than stupider parents.
2) Another assumption is that smarter Muslims will be most likely to disagree with many Muslim customs and beliefs, and non believers born in Muslim countries especially in the middle east, will be shunned and possibly killed, jailed or likely to leave to the West.
3) The Arab/Muslim country evolves into a population of nitwits over time. Not all nitwits, but on average, people less intelligent than those in England or Denmark for example.
4) I didn't say interbreeding leads to lower IQ of an entire population. It contributes to it along with what I stated above.
This is not racist IMO, but ideological. This is what happens to a population under Islamic rule over time.
I also believe this to be quickly reversible. Many Arab Muslims born in the West are very intelligent. But then again, their ancestors did leave the Arab Muslim nations, and many for reasons stated above, so it might be in their genes.
Is it racist to say that blacks are over represented in the NFL and the NBA? I'm just stating facts as I see them.
Gert, do you think that intelligence can be passed along from parents? Or do you think that any two babies born anywhere in the world free of disease, have an equal chance to be just as smart as each other if they were both adopted at the same time by Angelina Jolie for example?
Let's see if you post this here:
ReplyDeleteYour attempts at youtube-ing remind me of a 60's saying:
The quality of stupidity is rising.
BEAJ:
ReplyDeleteYou're making a number of highly contentious assumptions and then arrive at equally debatable conclusions:
On 1): I would agree with that if it wasn't for the fact that defining "intelligence" (in the IQ sense of the word) and measuring it are very difficult: IQ tests are a very blunt tool. In humans the effects of Nature (the genetic component) and Nurture (cultural and societal factors) on "intelligence" are almost impossible to separate. See also co-variation in IQ test results.
On 2): relies on the idea that the more "intelligent" will do the "right" thing: that's impossible to prove and doesn't really make much sense to me. Perhaps it does to you because of your definition and the expectations you have of "intelligence".
On 3): Even if, for argument's sake I accepted 1) and 2) (I don't), then bear in mind evolution is a slow process: you'd likely to be in for a very long wait...
"This is not racist IMO, but ideological. This is what happens to a population under Islamic rule over time." Wild supposition presented as incontrovertible fact. Also something "ideological" rarely, if ever, leads to objective truth.
"Is it racist to say that blacks are over represented in the NFL and the NBA? I'm just stating facts as I see them." You're comparing apples and oranges: the representation of blacks in the NFL and the NBA can be very easily and very accurately measured (thus facts can be established), but the "intelligence" of Muslims cannot.
"Gert, do you think that intelligence can be passed along from parents? [...]"
Personally I think that the influence of societal and cultural factors in the vast majority of cases obscures the influence of the innate "intelligence". There is undoubtedly some innate component to "intelligence" but it's very difficult to measure and almost impossible to separate from the influence of nurture.
Also, genetic factors influencing innate "intelligence" are likely to be multiple and complex: there is no single gene for "intelligence", rather other, multiple innate capabilities exert an influence on a person's intellectual development. This is an important point because complex genetic traits do not follow the rather simple Mendelian rules that simple traits do follow.
Please take note of the Sam Harris quote at this blog's top...
Because intelligence is hard to measure, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It goes beyond right and wrong, it is the ability to solve large problems, understanding math and language, creating better solutions, and thinking ahead...that is intelligence to me.
ReplyDeleteI also think cultural and societal factors could either limit or encourage ones potential intelligence.
Did you read about the brother and sister who have 5 kids in Germany? 2 of them have known defects (not sure if it is physical or mental or both)
Inbreeding increases the likelihood of this to happen...although it still happens to the children of intelligent parents who aren't related too....the odds are.....
See Sam Harris quote...
Sam Harris is as about as lame as you are.
ReplyDeleteI like "work makes you free"
BEAJ:
ReplyDeleteHaving kids with those who are too closely related does increase the chance of deformities, that is well known and the root cause of moral and legal restrictions on incest.
But the chance of such deformities arising plummets exponentially with the distance of relationship. You get 50% of your genome from your dad and 50% from your mum, 25% from each of your 4 grandparents, 12.5% from each of your 8 great-grandparents, 6.25% from each of your 16 great-great-grandparents, 3.125% from each of your 32 great-great-great-grandparents, etc etc. By the time you go back 6 or 7 generations, you have no more in common (genetically speaking) than with other complete strangers in your "gene-pool". We are all related to some point (more so than you might think because the vast majority of blood-lines haven't made to this date and became dead-ends (pardon the unintended pun).
The occurrence of (some rare) genetically inherited diseases can actually be greater in the offspring of completely unrelated parents, than in more closely related people. It's very much a game of chance.
Correlating such deformities within a certain gene-pool remains problematic and in some cases (like sickle-cell anaemia) there is a logical and compelling reason (sickle-cell also protects the bearer against malaria).
Rickey:
Shhh.. the adults are talking... Off to bed with you.
Nice postings and I enjoyed your videos.
ReplyDeleteHey BEAJ, long time.
ReplyDeleteI think two points cannot be overstated in its importance:
1. Brain Drain
People ask how come there aren't many great Arab scientists and thinkers. But in fact, they do exist! They just happen to be called "Americans".
Canada and America's immagration policy have taken advantage of the Arab Brain drain just as Europe has taken advantage of the cheap labour force.
The good news is that just like China and India, the brain drain is completely reversable.
2. Intelligence only exist if it is rewarded
What is the point to having a high IQ when the highest praised accomplishment is the ability to memorize the Quran, often in a language children do not even understand.
America (and Canada, Israel, etc..) have the greatest thinkers because we reward the hell out of geniuses. In Islamic countries, intelligent dissenting thought can get someone killed. In America, the same thoughts can get you a Porche at the age of 35.
While all religions at some point held back innovation, Islam seems to have a much stronger grip. Churchill said in 1900 "There is no stronger retrograde force than Islam". This idea may be "racist" (or atleast politically incorrect) but that does not mean its not true.
It's not just intelligence though. While South Korean children are miles ahead in education, Americans still surpass in entrepeneurship because of America's culture of accepting failure as part of business.
Now imagine the Arab world where honor/shame replace our guilt based society. The idea of failing in business is enough incintive never to try. It's a cultural issue that must be overcome.
Personally, I am not sold on biological factors. If it does exist at all, I am guessing that the brain drain, lack of reward to be intelligent, and honor/shame culture are more than enough to cripple a civilization.
Jordan, I still think intelligence is a mixture of nature and nurture.
ReplyDeleteI notice this is a live post thanks to Dhimmitude linking it today. I hope everyone enjoyed the song.
Thanks Adam, you have an interesting blog btw.
"its ok to say they want dead jews and its ok to say they want beheading anyone who doesn't convert. "
ReplyDeleteThePat; In my view, it is okay to say those things, as it plainly states it in the koran, the book all muslims believe to be the final word of god.
The Pat, one of the bigger problems with our society today is that people think they have some kind of right to never feel offended.
ReplyDeleteI did NOT feel offended by the video you condemn. I think it has value for the statement it makes.
You're an atheist, and some people find it offensive for you to say so! Please rethink your knee-jerk fear of being offended.
Thats a really hypocritical argument knowing that jews have the JIDF.
ReplyDeletevisit their page at "thejidf.com" and see what their censoring
facebook
youtube
wikipedia
blogger
wordpress
google earth
Give them a visit and lets see if you are really with freedom of speech.