If Sharia Law Comes To Canada, Blame Craig Smith And Those Who "Think" Like Him

I hadn't posted on the Blogging Tories Forums for quite some time. Probably since the provincial elections when I told everyone on that Forum that John Tory was going to lose, and why.
There are only a couple of members there that I can relate to, so I didn't feel like I was missing much.
I decided to go back to see if their reaction to keeping the Lord's Prayer in Provincial Legislature sessions. Since most members are uppity insecure Christians, I know they felt that it should be a gimme, but they were probably very pissed that other prayers are going to be read in rotation, including Islamic prayer.
I found nothing on it. I imagine their tails were tucked between their legs when the decision finally came out.
So I decided to spice things up and start a thread based on Pat Condell's newest Youtube video which explains why religious zealots who need to blur the line that separates church and state are the main reason why Islam is a threat to the Western world, and a threat to make serious changes in our Western culture.
I named the thread Is A Secular World A Sane World? (I know my answer, but I also kinda knew what the uppity Christians answers would be too).
I wound up lasting a day and a half before Forum admin baby Craig Smith (he is also co-founder of the Blogging Tories forum), took it upon himself to ban me once more. This time I won't try to get back in. Enough with his hypocritical arrogance.
For those interested, I will post the exchange between Craig and I. The whole thread can be found here.

Me: Pat Condell makes excellent points as to why Islam is a danger to the West. And I know many of the readers here, won't like them:



Craig: False presumption. He is assuming that we want to give broad religious freedom - I don't. I want Canada to be a Christian country. It is my believe that the purpose of a country is for people of shared values to reside in peace. That means that there should be atheist countries, Islamic countries, and Christian countries. I want Canada to be a Christian country.


Me: 1. You may want a theocracy. I don't. And a Christian country would be a theocracy, no different than what Saudi Arabia is by definition.
It really doesn't matter though. More and more Canadians are becoming atheist or agnostic every day as the internet is killing Christianity.

And when you say you want a Christian nation, do you mean Catholic nation? Protestant nation? Jehovah Witness nation? Mormon nation?

Last survey, 2. 23% of Canadians are atheist.
I still don't know what a Christian nation is though? Does that mean shops are closed on Sunday?


Craig: 1. Was Canada a theocracy 20 years ago when I said the lord's prayer in class after singing Oh Canada? Your comparison to Saudi Arabia is alarmist.

2. Good. So you remain a clear minority.
And a Christian nation includes all people who believe in Christ.

Me: I have no idea what you mean then by a Christian nation. I really don't.
There is a Catholic Lords Prayer that is different to the Protestant version. Which Lord's Prayer do you want?
And yes, there was a time when Jews couldn't get into certain clubs and even universities thanks to Canada's Christian status (back then it was pretty much just Catholics and Protestants who made up the rules). Is that alarmist?

Actually, Protestants who want Canada to be a Christian nation are in the minority.

And as far as Christianity and theocratic governments are concerned, lets look at Nazi Germany where the overwhelming majority of their population were Catholics taught that the Jews killed Jesus. It made physical attacks against Jews a much easier sell.


Craig: theatheistjew wrote:
There is a Catholic Lords Prayer that is different to the Protestant version. Which Lord's Prayer do you want?
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Why do you insist that there be just one prayer to our lord???

theatheistjew wrote:
And yes, there was a time when Jews couldn't get into certain clubs and even universities thanks to Canada's Christian status (back then it was pretty much just Catholics and Protestants who made up the rules). Is that alarmist?
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Comparing us to Saudi Arabia IS alarmist. Because you can cite a few examples doesn't make your comparison valid.

theatheistjew wrote:
And as far as Christianity and theocratic governments are concerned, lets look at Nazi Germany where the overwhelming majority of their population were Catholics taught that the Jews killed Jesus. It made physical attacks against Jews a much easier sell.
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Nazi German was anything but a theocracy. Your argument just became absurd.

Quotes from Hitler...

Quote:
"National Socialism and religion cannot exist together....

"The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity....

"Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things."

"Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure."

"The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity....
"Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse....

"...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little....
"Christianity the liar....

"We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State."

"The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity."

"Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery....

"When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease."

"There is something very unhealthy about Christianity."

Sounds like atheism is the real danger in terms of comparisons to Nazism.


Me: "Why do you insist that there be just one prayer to our lord???"
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Why not have hundreds then, and not even have kids learn anything in school or for government sessions to not get started until after lunch.
How many prayers to your Lord are performed in most public setting these days btw?

"Comparing us to Saudi Arabia IS alarmist. Because you can cite a few examples doesn't make your comparison valid."
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Prayer in public, intolerance towards homosexuals, favoring one religion over others...should I go on?

Hitler didn't like organized religion, but the Nazis and the rest of the German army embraced the Catholic God. They had something to do with God written on their belt buckles. Hardly atheistic. Hitler used the countries overwhelming majority of Catholics and played on it.
As for his personal beliefs, he felt that Aryans were a special creation of God. Again, this has nothing to do with atheism either.

For what it is worth OBL doesn't necessarily have to believe in Islam to use the Koran and its followers to blow themselves up. FYI, I do think that OBL is a believer.

It was the religious writings and interpretations that the Jews killed Jesus and all the rest of the stuff the Catholics used from the bible to make the Jew a villain that led to the German people accepting the atrocities committed on fellow human beings.

Again, you failed to define what exactly you mean by a Christian nation. Is it possible that you can define it for me. What would change that isn't happening right now, and what would you eliminate?

BTW, Craig, your admission of wanting Canada to be a Christian nation (whatever that means) has lost you pretty much any respect I had for you. I think it is very sad you "think" that way. I thought you were more progressive than that.

Regarding the German Armies belt buckles:
Gott mit uns (meaning God With Us) was the motto of the royal house of Prussia, and part of the military emblem of Prussia and later Germany.
During the Second World War, Wehrmacht soldiers wore this slogan on their belt buckles, as opposed to members of the Waffen SS, who wore the motto Meine Ehre heißt Treue (my honor is loyalty).

Craig: theatheistjew wrote:
BTW, Craig, your admission of wanting Canada to be a Christian nation (whatever that means) has lost you pretty much any respect I had for you. I think it is very sad you "think" that way. I thought you were more progressive than that.
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How arrogant of you to think that I care about how you think of me. Arrogance is a trademark of atheists.

theatheistjew wrote:
intolerance towards homosexuals
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Intolerance towards homosexuality.

theatheistjew wrote:
favoring one religion over others...should I go on?
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Not letting women drive or laugh in public. Not allowing women to sing music. Hmmm - so similar!!!

theatheistjew wrote:
Hitler didn't like organized religion, but the Nazis and the rest of the German army embraced the Catholic God. They had something to do with God written on their belt buckles. Hardly atheistic. Hitler used the countries overwhelming majority of Catholics and played on it.
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That's quite a stretch.

theatheistjew wrote:
It was the religious writings and interpretations that the Jews killed Jesus and all the rest of the stuff the Catholics used from the bible to make the Jew a villain that led to the German people accepting the atrocities committed on fellow human beings.
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And it took how many other CHRISTIAN countries to stop Hitler? LOL - this is too easy.

theatheistjew wrote:
Again, you failed to define what exactly you mean by a Christian nation. Is it possible that you can define it for me. What would change that isn't happening right now, and what would you eliminate?
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I want to live in a country with people who share my values. Sharia law is not consistent with my values. We still are a Christian country. We are not far from where I want this country to be. I just need to stop people like you from changing it.

Me: Craig wrote: How arrogant of you to think that I care about how you think of me. Arrogance is a trademark of atheists.
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It is obvious to anyone here that I didn't think you care. I put out that statement for the rest of the board to see.
Arrogance:P
Christians who want a Christian nation are nothing but insecure control freaks. I still don't see a definition of what a Christian nation is though Craig.
Since you are the one who mentioned you want one, what exactly is it you want?

Craig wrote: That's quite a stretch.
And it took how many other CHRISTIAN countries to stop Hitler? LOL - this is too easy.
I want to live in a country with people who share my values. Sharia law is not consistent with my values. We still are a Christian country. We are not far from where I want this country to be. I just need to stop people like you from changing it.
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Sharia law or any religious law that discriminates and makes it through the courts is not consistent with my values.
We are not a Christian country. Well, I don't really know what your idea of a Christian country is because you refuse to define it.
The changes made are for the better. Jews are allowed to go to any university they choose to now, for example. Check out Monte Hall's story about not being allowed to go to certain universities because he was a Jew, and check out the old signs that used to be on Toronto beaches "no dogs or Jews allowed"
Is that your idea of a Christian nation. I spit on it.

What Christian countries stopped Hitler? The founders of the USA didn't want to favour any religion contrary to what apologists state.
Were the Russians a Christian state? They stopped Hitler too. The bottom line was that it was easy to sell the idea that Jews needed to go to a country the had an overwhelming majority of Catholics.

I'd like to know what good things I'm trying to change.


Craig: theatheistjew wrote:
Well, I don't really know what your idea of a Christian country is because you refuse to define it.
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Canada 50 years ago.

theatheistjew wrote:
Is that your idea of a Christian nation. I spit on it.
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My grandfather spent six years fighting Nazism during the second world war. I spit on you and your selfish attitude.

theatheistjew wrote:
What Christian countries stopped Hitler? The founders of the USA didn't want to favour any religion contrary to what apologists state.
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Canada, the USA, England, Australia were all just as Christian as you contend Germany was.

theatheistjew wrote:
Were the Russians a Christian state?
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Forced atheism. Nobody can be sure just how Christian they were.

theatheistjew wrote:
The bottom line was that it was easy to sell the idea that Jews needed to go to a country the had an overwhelming majority of Catholics.
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No - the bottom line is that millions of Christians died trying to save the Jews during WWII and you seek to demonize Christians because of a few signs on beeches.

theatheistjew wrote:
The reason Muslim prayer is now in the government is because of "thinkers" like Craig who need the Lords Prayer on tax payer dollars, so that he can beat his chest that this is a Christian nation Rolling Eyes
As far as the country that I want. It is pretty close to what we have or are about to have once we get rid of the whining religionists.
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Lose the attitude jackass or get lost.

This isn't "raving atheists" - or whatever that cesspool forum is called.


I replied back with something like "you are a control freak because you want a Christian country and you are now using your power to ban me, like you did a year ago or so. I called him a jackass, and told him to ban me for calling him one. Since I got banned last time for calling another member names. Also, if Sharia Law comes to Canada, blame yourself and your ilk for trying to keep religion in the government."

That wasn't exactly what I said, I just can't remember my exact wording. Craig deleted the post. I guess he figured that Jesus would have deleted the post and banned me too:)

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CANADA

I hope this isn't the last year that Canada is free of Sharia Law, but if it is, we have Craig Smith and company to blame.


BTW, I emailed Craig after I got banned, and told him to grow up among a few other things.

He said I lead a hateful life.

I think the irony of his statement is lost on him.

I also noted that there is hardly any action on that Forum anymore. Very few posts by very few members. I livened things up for a day and a half at least. Craig should close the Forum that he has destroyed by being such a control freak.

If you want to see whining religionists in action though, they are really crying about the news that abortion doctor Henry Morgentaler is to receive the Order of Canada.

Canada a Christian country? My ass. Jesus must be rolling around in his grave:)

What Type Of Creationist Are You?

I came across the following definitions from this post at Skeptoid. It is pretty interesting and even enlightening to see someone actually define how theists come to terms(or not) with actual scientific knowledge, while still fitting God into the gaps and/or adding God into the equation.

Theistic Evolution:
Evolution by natural processes is the tool God used

Evolutionary Creationism:
Adam and Eve were the first spiritually aware humans

Progressive Creationism:
Humans were a special creation event

Day-Age Creationism:
Six days of creation were six geological epochs

Gap Creationism:
4.5 billion year gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2

Omphalism:
Earth was created with the appearance of age and of evolution

Young Earth Fundamentalism:
Invented versions of all natural sciences to explain Earth's age as 6,000 years

To expand:

1. Theistic Evolution. This is the Catholic Pope's officially stated position, and it's embraced by many real scientists of faith. Theistic evolution accepts both the geologic and biologic records, including modern evolutionary synthesis, and posits that these are simply the tools God chose to create the natural world. Theistic evolution allows and embraces scientific research and permits the acceptance of new information.

2. Evolutionary Creationism also accepts the geologic and biologic records, and makes its creationist distinction in that there were a literal Adam and Eve who were simply the first spiritually aware humans, though they came into being in the same way as all early humans.

3. Progressive Creationism goes one step farther. Progressive Creationism accepts the geologic record, and much of the prehistoric biologic record, including the true age of dinosaurs and other early lifeforms, but believes that the creation of humans and perhaps other modern animals was a special creationism event as literally depicted in Genesis. Thus, there can be no biological link between humans and early hominids from the fossil record.

4. Day-Age Creationism is the belief that the six days of creation were really six geological epochs. Usually some effort is made to reconcile specific days in Genesis to specific epochs in Earth history, but since things didn't really all happen separately and consecutively like in Genesis, such efforts are generally somewhat ham-handed. But at least they're trying. Day-Age Creationism is what Jehovah's Witnesses advocate in their Watchtower pamphlets.

5. Gap Creationism is about as far as the Old Earth model can be stretched. This model attempts to unify the true age of the Earth as measured by science with the literal Biblical account. Jimmy Swaggart advocates this model. Gap Creationism states that the first verse of the Bible, God created the heavens and the Earth, was followed by a "gap" of 4.5 billion years, during which time not much happened. And then, the literal creation of Genesis took place in six days about six to ten thousand years ago. Necessarily, this model has to abandon evolution completely, although it adheres to proper geology.

6. Omphalism. This is named after the 1857 book Omphalos, published two years before Darwin's Origin of Species, which explained that the fossil record was God's way of making the Earth appear to be old. Omphalos is Greek for navel, and the Omphalists believe that Adam and Eve were created with navels, thus having the appearance of being created through normal evolutionary biology. Adherents to Omphalism fully accept every scientific measurement of the age of the Earth and every discovery of modern biology, with the important exception that all such discoveries are wrong: God only wanted to make us think that the Earth is 4.5 billion years old, and that life evolved from lower forms. A true scientist doing real research can be an Omphalist. He will arrive at the correct conclusions, though he will believe that his measurement is merely what God wants him to see.

7. Modern Young Earth Fundamentalism. Here is where the train jumps completely off the tracks. Modern Young Earthers, for lack of a better name, are the ones behind the Creation Museum discussed earlier. They honestly believe in alternate versions of virtually every science known, throwing away every shred of modern science that doesn't point to the age of the Earth as 6,000 years. They literally believe in Adam and Eve (without navels) and all the dinosaurs on Day 1, fossilization taking only a few hundred years, and all major geologic features having been created in a few days in Noah's Flood. They reject evolution, cosmology, geology, and every science that supports them; which, by extension, eventually includes every scientific discipline. However, in their minds, they don't reject them at all; they fully embrace completely wrong, misinterpreted, misunderstood, and misrepresented versions of them. Their worldview is based absolutely on the Bible as a perfect, unerring, literal historical account. As a followup, they have invented their own versions of natural sciences that they pretend supports this view. It is not possible to be a thoroughly researched Young Earther and still retain any grasp on rationality. This is the group making the overwhelming majority of noise in the media and modern culture, but it's not clear how large of a group this really is. They have the largest and loudest web presence, with AnswersInGenesis.org and the Discovery Institute, though out of 3.2 million Ph.D.'s worldwide they've only been able to find 700 who agree with their science, according to their list maintained at DissentFromDarwin.org. This represents 2% of 1% of people with advanced academic degrees.

What Best Describes Your Views About Creation?
	Theistic Evolution
	Evolutionary Creationism
	Progressive Creationism
	Day-Age Creationism
	Gap Creationism
	Omphalism
	Young Earth Fundamentalism
	No Evidence And/Or Need For A God
	God Has Been Benign Throughout With No Plan
	God Has Been Benign With A Plan
Free polls from Pollhost.com

I'm pretty OK with the first two on the list. I'm a firm believer that we are susceptible to believe in God, that we evolved this trait. Coming to grips with a Godless universe is not that easy once you are indoctrinated. It takes a lot of honesty and objectivity to become an atheist. And I'm not trying to say that I'm better than a theist, you can draw your own conclusions:)

There is a lot of overlap in the first two camps though. I'm not sure how Dr. Ken Miller, a Catholic who is totally anti-Intelligent Design would answer the question of which camp he belongs. I'm sure he thinks God has a plan, and I think I remember reading something about him believing that Adam and Eve evolved as the first human beings, and were actual individuals who God allegorically spoke about in the bible.

I'd like to think that most critical thinking believers fall into one of the first two categories.

I've discussed the idea of special creation with a Muslim on the internet a while back. He still thought that God poofed man here as man after the dinosaurs were killed off. I'm not sure how many people believe that stuff though. Muslims don't seem to readily accept evolution though. Like Day-Age and Gap Creationism Progressive Creationism denies reality, but not as much as the Young Earth Creationists.

I'm sure I've come across a few Omphalist nuts on the internet. At least these people aren't as dishonest and embarrassing as the Young Earth Fundamentalists who will come up with the most mind boggling and idiotic explanations in order to fit science into the bible.

Unfortunately, in the USA close to 45% of the people are not in the first two categories but the last 5 categories. And there is overlap, I'm sure that there are many people out there who wilfully have no opinion on evolution or the age of the earth. They want to keep their head in the sand and not think about it.

More Must See Videos From Potholer54

Maybe it is the Australian accent that gives Potholer54 an edge when it comes to sounding like an authority. It really doesn't matter though. His videos are the best when it comes to explaining evolution and the beginnings of the universe. Here is a summation of his Made Easy Series.


If you have anyone who you feel is lacking in understanding of things like evolution or how life could have started on earth without some invisible sky fairy zapping it here, send them the appropriate video by email. Here is Potholer54's entire series.

Potholer54 has started a new series called Debunking Creationist Garbage. Here is his first video:

George Carlin: RIP

The world lost a very funny atheist. He made us think, whether one agreed with him or not. His videos on Religion and the 10 Commandments just have to make theists at least question their beliefs.
I remember him having a heart attack (it was almost 30 years ago). I looked at him as someone who knew his days were numbered, for quite a while. But it apparently didn't make him become closer to God.
I did a post on George Carlin in April of 2006. Here is a newly edited version of it:

This video is called Religion Is Bullsh@t (It contains foul language in case you are at work or there are kids in the room).


Here are some Carlin Quotes:

“Frisbeetarianism is the belief that when you die, your soul goes up on the roof and gets stuck.”

“The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music”

“If God had intended us not to masturbate he would've made our arms shorter”

“If churches want to play the game of politics, let them pay admission like everyone else”

“I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.”

“Religion is just mind control”

Some more:

"We created God in our own image and likeness."

"I credit that eight years of grammar school with nourishing me in a direction where I could trust myself and trust my instincts. They gave me the tools to reject my faith. They taught me to question and think for myself and to believe in my instincts to such an extent that I just said, 'This is a wonderful fairy tale they have going here, but it's not for me."

"Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money!"

"Religion is sort of like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better, fine. Just don't ask me to wear your shoes."

"I finally accepted Jesus. not as my personal savior, but as a man I intend to borrow money from."

"I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death."

Ok, I might as well add this clip of George trimming down the 10 Commandments to only 2 Commandments. Again, there is some foul language:

Aboriginal Brazilian Tribes Bury Children Alive

NOTE: I was informed the following video is a recreation. Makes sense. I can't see how a cameraman could let it happen. I have a problem with cameramen who film wildlife becoming snacks as well. But I can also see them letting it happen.

The internet has lots of disturbing things on it. But this has to be right at the top of the list:

The Tradition of Infanticide

The tradition is based on beliefs that babies with any sort of physical defect have no souls and that others, such as twins or triplets, are also "cursed".

The Brazilian authorities turn a blind eye to infanticide, out of respect for the tribal culture.

Imagine if these Aboriginal Brazilians wrote a bible today. It might even resemble the Old Testament. God was OK with stonings and murder and sacrifice. The New Testament was definitely OK with Jesus sacrificing himself.

But this goes back to the fact that we evolved a susceptibility to believe in the supernatural.

Man is superstitious by nature. Our ancestors, who probably resembled the tribe in the film, couldn't explain lightning, so they had to make up supernatural causes and buy into them, in order to not go crazy. Faced with self awareness and knowledge of mortality, all sorts of weird ideas could then be put into cultural rituals to appease their God or Gods, and avoid death for at least a while, or make sure that they'll be taken care of after they die.

Surely, their God is not the Abrahamic God, yet they still have a concept of a God who can curse them and give them bad luck if they don't perform rituals that they obviously made up....well they had to make them up, unless one believes that God went to Brazil and gave them the go ahead to bury babies.

Can you believe that this stuff still goes on in the year of 2008? I do. After all, even in a progressive province like Ontario, we still have prayer in the Legislature.