here it is once more.
I'm pretty much a centrist, but socially I definitely lean to the left. When it comes to fighting Radical Islam and Evangelicals who want to push their bullshit agenda, I am on the Far Right.
Some people may find a conflict here because many Evangelicals are very Anti-Jihad, and many Atheists have their heads up their ass when it comes to the goals of Islam, and feel that supporting gay rights, for example, is the same thing ideologically as supporting Islamic rights. Atheists don't have to be MOONBATS. Atheists don't have to be blind. Atheists don't have to be Dhimmis in waiting.
Hey that isn't an Alley Cat, it is an Allah Cat, run:
Again, as proven by some of the commenters on this blog, the Far Left just don't get it. Even when given evidence, they deny and/or ignore it. Even if the evidence comes from first hand sources such as The Sandmonkey, God's Loyal Opposition, Roya (The Atheist Girl), Wafa Sultan, or The Three Former Palestinian Terrorists. Sorry but I can't handle a culture that protests cartoons on one hand but stays relatively silent when it comes to protesting terrorist acts.
As far the Christian Right is concerned, I feel I am better equipped to fight it, and I think it is a war that will eventually be won..........but not in my lifetime.
Science and fact can only be denied for so long. Let us not forget that mind numbing religious beliefs have been around for thousands of years. In fact it was the only game in town for quite a while. The Young Earth, for instance, was ingrained in our ancestors so much that it wouldn't surprise me if part of our brains evolved a small section that automatically accepts it as a given. But I have "faith" that humans are capable of overcoming this brain defect, if we are allowed to receive facts and evidence. Didn't OBL just say that Freethinkers should have their heads cut off? (Oh yeah, just some more rhetoric for the Religion Of Peace). At least the Christian Right hasn't been threatening anything like that. They just tell me I'm going to hell. I can live with that.
Yes, it is amazing that in today's day and age that 45% of Americans believe in a Young Earth and think evolution is phooey. But those numbers were much higher 100 years ago. And I expect that number to keep dropping and dropping as more scientific discoveries come along. The Christian Right can only do the Ignorant Jig for so long before their legs have no more strength.
I don't even have a problem with the fact that Fundamental Christians plop out more children than us Secularists. Just because a child is born to two delusional parents, doesn't make the child delusional. If that was true, Agnostics and Atheists would not be growing by percentage. It is my duty, and the duty of anyone who appreciates at least the basics of how scientific theories are derived, to educate as many young people as we can. Facts will win in the long run. As long as the Christian Right doesn't ban science, reality will win.
It won't be long before the Catholics start owning up to the fact that Jesus might not have existed the way they are going. I love it. Check this out at Beep Beep's. It is only a matter of time. The Christian Fundies will be dinosaurs within a century.
I'm not sure your impression of those on the left is accurate. Perhaps there are a few fringe wackos who don't think militant Islam is dangerous, but I don't see why that would even be a left/right issue. I do support the right of American Muslims to pray and exercise their religious freedoms like any other American, but I have no sympathy whatsoever (of course!) for al-Qaida and the like. Those of us who oppose the war don't oppose it because we like terrorists -- we oppose it because invading Iraq wasn't worth the cost in lives, money, goodwill, and the lessening of our ability to deal with countries who may actually be threats to us. Like Iran, for instance. Not to mention the fact that Iraq might not even end up better off than it started.
ReplyDeleteYeah it may be the idiots on the left. I'm pretty left leaning but I can see the validity of fighting Islamic fundamentalism (and fundamentalism in general). Although I think the current war in Iraq was contructed for some reason yet to really be understood, I truely believe that Afghanistan was a good move.
ReplyDeletenice map
South Kakilacky don't stand fer no damn musliu..mosle..um..mohamaa..well shit
We don't like no damn dark skinned peoples.
It doesn't surprise me at all there aren't any known islamic terrorist groups in south carolina. Hell we pretty much don;t allow any groups that aren't baptist or republican.
I've always maintained that the war in Iraq was inevitable, OK let me backtrack, it was inevitable that the US had to show it wasn't just a bag of wind when responding to Middle East threats or lack of cooperation, and the idea of any middle eastern country building WMD's to dangle as threats.
ReplyDeleteInevitable just like the Atom bomb being "tested" on civilians. If it didn't happen in Japan in 1945, it would have happened by now....and the result could have been even more destructive than it was.
Jewish Atheist, you said "Perhaps there are a few fringe wackos who don't think militant Islam is dangerous, but I don't see why that would even be a left/right issue." You may want to reconsider it after you read this. It's an article about how Italian communist groups helped Islamists in Iraq kill Italian soldiers.
ReplyDeleteOr this one where a British pofessor says that London bombings are not terrorism.
I don't think I even have to mention Ward Churchill's call for :thousand Mogadishus".
THIS is how the so-called LEft intelligentsia feels. And they are the ones teaching younger generation in most clleges and universities.
One more example - Lynn Stewart, the hard-left lawyer who was representing Sheikh Abdul Rahman who was the mastermind of the 1993 WTC bombing. She was arrested and jailed for smuggling messages between him and his asociates.
Watcher, I'm not arguing that there are *some* people on the left like that, but they really are fringe wackos. I could point to Fred Phelps on the right who heckles mourners at soldier's funerals.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I was referring to the American left, not some Italian communists! The American left is not communistic.
The American Left is closer to communists than you think. Take the college professors at UC Berkely for example. And this is just one example. Most of the colleges and Universities are like that. Remember the recent story about a former Taliban mouthpiece admitted to Yale? Or about Brandeis hiring a Jihadi professor?
ReplyDeleteNo no no Steve. It is you than confuses terrorism with civil rights,etc.
ReplyDeleteI think, "war" on the Christian Right is a bit of a harsh term. Although I don't consider myself a member of the far-right, I don't think that is the group to war with. Just the fact that I am a Christian doesn't mean that I want to declare a war on atheists, nor do I want to force my beliefs on people who don't want to hear them.
ReplyDeleteIt is fine to support efforts to fight terrorism, as I think most people do...except maybe Steve up there. But I would hope you wouldn't want to declare war on Muslims in general.
Just my 2 cents, good post.
I'm not declaring war on Muslims.
ReplyDeleteWatcher:
ReplyDeleteThe American Left is closer to communists than you think. Take the college professors at UC Berkely for example. And this is just one example. Most of the colleges and Universities are like that.
Berkeley is known as one of the most liberal universities in the country. It's hardly representative. Anyway, I don't know why we're talking about a few nuts on the far left. BEAJ said he was "on the far right" on this issue, not "to the right of a couple professors and some Italian communists."
As far the Christian Right is concerned, I feel I am better equipped to fight it
ReplyDeleteYes, you are, because you don't have a knee-jerk reaction to everything the Christian Right believes--you share many of the same opinions, even if they are based on different reasons.
I have to agree with flamingo, I don't think there needs to be "war" on Americans, Christian or not. I also don't think Christianity is ever going to just go away; religion of some kind has existed in every culture in mankind. Of course, if Islamists have their way, Christianity (and Judaism, atheism, Buddhism, Hinduism, etc.) will all go away. So I say the above with that caveat. And considering at least *some* Muslims consider Christians and Jews "people of the book," atheists and social liberals realistically have more to lose at the hands of Islamists. It's rather ironic that left-winger (!) atheists do so much apologizing for them, when they would be in the most danger.
Even in Turkey, which is comparatively rather secular (at least ten years ago, that is), the locals who rented out housing to American military preferred to rent to religious types, especially religious married families. (They freely discriminated against blacks and others, too.)
And again, that was TURKEY, which is centuries ahead (culturally) of the rest of the Islamic world, although they're doing a good job of going backwards these days, though (where's Ataturk when you need him??).
Jewish Atheist, what about the Joe Schmos on the left who are all over the internets cheering on "the insurgency" and celebrating the deaths of American soldiers? And encouraging soldiers to desert, rather than fight the terrorists?
They sure sound like people who are AT BEST "appeasing" jihadis to me.
Sorry, I meant Steve.
ReplyDeleteJewish Atheist, what about the Joe Schmos on the left who are all over the internets cheering on "the insurgency" and celebrating the deaths of American soldiers?
ReplyDeleteI've never seen that. Not once. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong places, but I hang out in some pretty liberal ones. (Like metafilter.)
Beth, I didn't say religion was going away. My point is that religion that ignores or denies science will get smaller and maybe one day disappear.
ReplyDeleteAgain, the Vatican is making major strides towards the realization that many things in the bible can't be taken literally because scientific evidence over rides it. When I talk about the war with the Christian Right, I'm talking about keeping known falsities such as a Young Earth out of mainstream education, for example.
JA, you should check a Yahoo Message board one of these days. There are many individuals who get really happy at the thought of dead American soldiers.
ReplyDeleteWhen I say I'm on the Far Right as far as the War on Terror, I mean that everything I see confirms my beliefs that Radical Islam wants to take over the world, and that they hate the West, and if left alone......they will have no problem cutting our heads off, attempting to nuke us, and/or converting us.
The problem I have with moderate Muslims is that mostly they are either silent against terror or make excuses (blame the West, Afghanistan, Israel, etc, or blame the USA for "creating" Al Qaeda).
Saying that the far left wackos represent the whole of the liberal side in the USA is like saying that Pat Buchanan and Dobson represent all of the conservatives.
ReplyDeleteJA, I gave Berkeley just as an example. Yes, it is on the far left, but it's not the only U where the Left is "in control".
ReplyDeleteWhen I say I'm on the Far Right as far as the War on Terror, I mean that everything I see confirms my beliefs that Radical Islam wants to take over the world, and that they hate the West, and if left alone......they will have no problem cutting our heads off, attempting to nuke us, and/or converting us.
ReplyDeleteI would bet that at least 95% of Democrats agree with this.
I think you are using the words left and right too losely.
ReplyDeleteThe Islamists were heros of the right, when the Soviet Union had an incursion into Afghanistan.
I'm a lefty who was secular and anti-Islamist, before it was fashionable. You're right that some on the left aren't as clear.
If you really want scientific truths, you should check my blog!
ReplyDeleteSteve,
ReplyDeleteI do not know about what most or least of the Muslim population thinks. We can only go by what they say and what they do. In Muslim countries there is a disregard for basic human rights for women and non-Muslims. This is their laws not mine.
In Saudi Arabia it is against the law for a Christian to hold prayer services in their own house, people have been imprisoned for this.
When innocent people are killed by children with bombs wrapped around themselves this is terrorism. When you fly a passenger airplane into a civilian building this is terrorism. When you invade a country and kill the babies in incubators, this is terrorism. I think normal humans can identify terrorism. These people do it in the name of their religion. They are told by their religious leaders that they will go to heaven if they do these things. Their governments show TV shows that exalt these acts as if they are great things to do. The children are taught to praise these people.
And when people of the same religion stand by and say and do nothing. Or worse, say how horrible these acts are in English and then champion these acts in their native tongue that is supporting terrorism.
There are many people who like to make excuses, give credence or applaud these acts. That is abetting terrorist. When I hear people like Ward Churchill talk, I wonder what he would say if it was his child killed by these terrorist, would he think his child is a little Eichmann?
Just for the record, Muslims have been invading countries and trying to forcible convert people since its inception. The Spanish Inquisition was the end of a 700 year war when finally the Christians kicked out the last of the Muslim invaders. The Crusades were a counter attack on the Muslim invasion of Palestine and Constantinople. If we are to discuss these issues we should use the facts.
No country is free from acts of violence upon others. But the Muslim countries are the country of choice today. Just because America, England or what ever country of choice did something 50 years ago, 150 years ago or 300 years ago, does not give any country, today, the right to perpetrate acts against innocent people.
Way to go BEAJ! The more people who point out the dangers of Islamism as a political ideology the better off we are. For a long time it was only Jews who really understood what the Isalmists were all about, but a growing number of Christians and secularists are beginning to see the danger of this horrid ideology posing as a religion. Keep it up man!
ReplyDeleteJP, I go to your blog whencver I feel like shooting fish in a barrel.
ReplyDeleteI highly recommend any Atheist go to your blog once in a while to see how ridiculous and ill informed your arguments are against science and atheism.
Yes, it is amazing that in today's day and age that 45% of Americans believe in a Young Earth and think evolution is phooey. But those numbers were much higher 100 years ago. And I expect that number to keep dropping and dropping as more scientific discoveries come along. The Christian Right can only do the Ignorant Jig for so long before their legs have no more strength.
ReplyDeleteI wish I were that optimistic. Unfortunately, I'm not. The evidence for evolution, right at this moment, is equally as compelling as the evidence that the earth spins on its axis while revolving around the sun. If 45% of Americans reject evolution at this point, I'm not sure anything will ever convince them of its veracity.
I'm continually amazed at the things in which people believe: Afterlife, God, ghosts, psychics, fortune telling, good luck charms, fate, angels, prayer, Hell, demons, possession, etc. Perhaps there truly is a "God Gene" that deludes people into believing this utter nonsense. As things stand, I have minimal hope for science's triumph over superstition. The rot in our species seems too deep, especially in this country.
I don't know about you guys, but that is the cutes picture ever!
ReplyDeleteI responded to Steve's post. I'm sure he doesn't use his brain to full capacity. I'm just glad I don't "think" like he does. Luckily his ilk is impotent when it comes to the War on Terror or we would all be Dhimmis soon.
ReplyDeleteJP, I go to your blog whencver I feel like shooting fish in a barrel.
ReplyDeleteUh, no shit. That place is garbage. It is a stream of unsupported rediculous claims flanked by a veritable whos who of non-sequiturs.
AJ,
ReplyDeleteI do not know what to say to Steve. I really do not want to get into a full back and forth commentary. I get the feeling that he thinks that the terrorists are not to blame. I do not understand.
I have read a lot of history about the Islamic world and they scare me. If one is not scared than I guess one would not have been scared of the Nazis either.
I do not mind discussing the issues but I think to do so people need some kind of common ground. If a person is to state that a terrorist is a terrorist than at least we have common ground. But to deny that terrorism is taught by a specific group of people when all the evidence shows otherwise seems to tell me that there is no common ground.
I think you are trying to state that the Muslim world seems to have a large percentage of people who will use whatever physical force they deem necessary, up to killing innocent woman and children, to push for a political and religious agenda. This seems pretty plain to me. The Muslim world since inception has played this hand. Sure they achieved great strides in science and mathematics but this does not change the way they deal with people.
Steven, you play right into the hands of the Middle Eastern Muslims.
ReplyDeleteYou buy into their bull that it the major reason terrorism exists is because of the West and Israel, when in fact it is mainly because Middle Eastern Muslim countries are taught to hate the West from day one. It is a simple formula. The leaders get to oppress their people, and the majority is taught to blame the West not the leaders for their plight.
You are a sucker. Did you go to Berkely?
Steve,
ReplyDeleteThis is where we part. I do believe that for a large part that Muslims are taught that death of non-Muslims pleases Allah, that to die in a Jihad is the ultimate way to go to paradise. It is true that there are vast numbers of Muslims that are not of this bent, but they do not run the governments or make public decisions or are they part of the Cleric.
The history of the Islam world is full of violence towards non-believers, non-Muslims and Muslims of other sects.
Muslim terrorism did not start in 1947, it did not start in 1921, it did not start in the late 1800’s. It started around 650 AD.
While other groups use terror as a weapon, no other religion or political group, except Nazis, use terror as the main weapon.
There is no excuse in the Middle East for the use of terror. There is no excuse to strap bombs onto children’s bodies. There is no excuse to blow up market places.
In Israel, no one is being dragged to death camps. No one is being used for forced labor.
The other question that needs to be asked is; why do Muslims kill each other with the same ferocity that they kill others, if it is not part of the culture?
I completely agree. People who are brought up in traditional Muslim homes are taught hatred of the West right from the beginning. If they never hear anything else, then what do you expect them to believe. Think back to the pre-Civil War deep south. If you were raised on a tobacco or cotton plantation and you were told all your life, "Africans are inferior" and "slavery is right" that is most likely what you would believe.
ReplyDeleteIt isn't a matter of losing faith in humanity, it is a matter of looking at facts.
By the way, people buy and sell drugs because of money and addiction.
I could point to Fred Phelps on the right who heckles mourners at soldier's funerals.
ReplyDelete&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
Then you would be pointing a Democrat and Gore supporter wouldn't you? ;-)
Try someone else
ewish Atheist, what about the Joe Schmos on the left who are all over the internets cheering on "the insurgency" and celebrating the deaths of American soldiers?
ReplyDeleteI've never seen that. Not once. Maybe I'm looking at the wrong places, but I hang out in some pretty liberal ones. (Like metafilter.)
06 May, 2006 22:16
**********************************************************************************
Try daily Kos the NUMBER ONE Leftist Blog on the net, whose webmaster is consulted by the Democratic Leadership and whose responce to the 4 dead Americans murdered then hung up and burned was
"Screw them they deserved it"
The Islamists were heros of the right, when the Soviet Union had an incursion into Afghanistan.
ReplyDelete***********************************************************************************
As I recall, at the time the Soviet Union was a rather imposing threat, now I will stipulate that the Far Left might have actually supported the Soviet Union, which makes their opposition by default on the right, but I don't see that as being germane, we also allied with the Soviet Union against the Nazis, I suppose you have some pointed quips to say about that?
In any case, why continue to use political labels derived from the seating postion of the French Assembly shortly after the Revolution.
There is no delineation for Authoritarian and Libertarian Paradigms.
To get back to the original topic, since both Born Again Christains and Atheists are Kaffir and if not resident of Dar al Islam (The House of Peace?submission)
are members of Dar al Harb (the House of War that portion of the world not forced to submit to the Will of Allah)
In other words when you are in the same boat and some one is trying to ram and sink it other matters of philosophy are moot.
PS Bacon is tasty, but you might want to upgrade sometime to pulled pork barbecue now THAT can be ambrosia if done right ;-)
See more at my Islamic Expansionism ,page
ReplyDeleteDan, I'm aware of the far Left. I find them very distasteful when it comes to many of their stances.
ReplyDeleteYes, Reality Show, you have a grasp on reality. It is an unfortunate reality, but it is one nonetheless.
ReplyDelete@bacon eater IMO the sad reality is that the Leadership of the Democratic Party is in the grips of the Far Left.
ReplyDeleteOne common sound bite we often hear is that the Country has moved to the Right.
I reject that premise and in evidence present this.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=548
I found this on a search for Party Afiliation, but found the data on POLITICAL PHILOSOPHY most interesting,
Though the severe drop in Party Afiliation for the Democrats was also revealing.
As you can see over the last 30 years percentages for Independents and Republicans have varied in a narrow range, Democrats have plummeted.
Also Conservatives and Liberals as percentages have not changed much.
But Moderates have skyrocketed.
Premise as the Democratic Party moved to the left, it lost touch and or abandoned it's Moderate Center.
Note also for Conservatives to create an alliance they have only to attract some 40% of the Moderate Center, Liberals must attact over 80%.
The trend is the Democratic Party moves back towards the center or it will cease to function on the National Level at which time I would expect the Republican Party to split into two new Parties a process that has been repeated more than once in the Past History of the Nation.
@Reality very good I am musing over a post I intend to call
ReplyDeleteThey are SO Crusader Armies!
I will for certain have to link to your map.