If you want BS or Political Correctness you have come to the wrong place. FAQ How can you be an atheist Jew?
April 20, 2006
MOONBATS: WHAT IF
Anti semite Alex on the No God blog(far Left Moonbats) got my wheels in motion because of a comment he made about gays getting a state because of persecution. Why should Jews be a special case? My reply was to the affect that if it got out of hand, and they could successfully lobby for such a state, I would have no problem with it. I also know that the far left support homosexuality completely. I do too. Homosexuality is not a choice, it is a reality.
It also got me thinking that since Alex is a gay man, the fact that he doesn't side with Jews because of persecution is a bit mind boggling. Israel exists because of major league Jew bashing. It began as an escape for Jews to get away from anti-semitism more so than a return to the religious homeland.
Now for the revelation. Listen up Lefties, and try to put your thinking caps on.
Lets change history a tad, shall we. It is Europe 1886 and a gay man by the name of Todd Shmeckledorf started to notice how gay bashing was on a rise, that the public was accepting gay bashing more and more. He realizes that it is only getting worse and decides to start a movement to get gays a homeland away from those who won't leave gays alone or those who will even murder gays and take away their rights.
Most people in the late 1800's believed in God and gays were no different, but years earlier, a gay version of the bible was created which made Jesus appear gay.
Gays would have their own places of worship, where they prayed to the gay Jesus. This of course, fueled the flames against gays even more. Not only were they trying to legally marry, they were also pushing their gayness on society, by holding hands in public, and because they were gay most businesses wouldn't higher them, they had to create their own businesses and they usually hired mostly gays.
Shmeckledorf knew that according to the gay bible that Bethlehem was the birthplace of the gay Jesus. Bethlehem had a small gay community throughout history, but they were constantly persecuted. Palestine was relatively a barren place with 500,000 Arabs and 50,000 Christian gays.
After visiting Russia and seeing the plight of gays there, Shmeckledorf was considering other options like Uganda, but the gays wanted to return to gay Jesus' birthplace.
Gays started to immigrate to the Holy Land in the early 1900's. The Arabs were not too pleased. They would refuse to sell gays land and they would beat up gays constantly.
Fast forward to 1933. Hitler comes into power. He blames all of Germany and Europes woes on gays. Not only were they corrupting society, they also caused an economic crash because of their thriftiness and because they tended to do all their shopping at gay owned businesses, who were sending money to Bethlehem making the German Mark worthless. And the fact that they preached that Jesus was a homosexual was the final straw that broke the camels back. Gays became completely alienated and their rights were taken away. And the British who controlled Palestine, stopped gay immigration to Bethlehem. Boats of gays trying to escape Europe were turned away in Canada and the USA.
WW2 happened. All gays were rounded up and put in death camps (in reality this did happen, 1/10th of the gay population in Germany were in fact put into camps). As Hitler conquered the rest of Europe, every known gay was put into camps.
After the war, the numbers were staggering. 80% of the gays in Europe were murdered. Although Alex would argue it was less than 1 million, it was actually closer to 6 million.
Britain and the UN decided that gays should now get their own state which included the birthplace of the gay Jesus, and a place where any gay in the world could live if they chose to, especially if gay bashing got out of hand anywhere in the world.
A partition plan was set up. One state would be Arab majority and the other would be a gay majority. No Arab would be forced to move or lose land.
The Arabs didn't want to be under gay rule, they wanted to rule 100% of the middle east and they didn't like gays at all regardless. They started a war. They told Arabs to leave for a while so that they could slaughter the gay population and win the war.
Miraculously, the gays won the war. And they knew that the Arabs if let back in, would just attack again. They maintain their policy that any gay from anywhere on this planet can go to Bethrael (the name of the new country), but they also let in others who must wait through the regular immigration process. They just won't let anymore Arabs in because Arabs want to kill them. The Arabs who stayed during the first war have been allowed to stay, but attacks by them are not tolerated.
Over the years, the Arabs attacked Bethrael 5 times and lost every war. They sent over suicide bombers, killing gays who were having lattes in open cafes. They blew up gays in gay discos too.
They were offered a state next to Bethrael on numerous occassions but refused. Their ultimate goal is and always has been to destroy the gay state. Gays just want to be left alone and live in peace, but the Arabs keep sending missiles. And in a recent election, the Arab in the West Bank voted for a party that wants to eliminate the state of Bethrael and drive every gay into the sea.
Now moonbats, lets hear what you have to say.
Discussing Israel With Far Left Atheists Is Like Discussing Evolution With A YEC
I'm just shaking my head more and more these days when it comes to my discussions about Israel with Left to Far Left (politically) Atheists.
They are completely ignorant of the true facts of the situation. They don't know the real history. Yet they have LOUD opinions that Israel is the bully and Israel is to blame for the Palestinians plight.
I have the same feeling in my head and stomach talking to these intellectual droids as I do when I try to convince a YEC that the earth is ancient and evolution is fact.
If you present them with facts, they either ignore them, or try their hardest not to understand it because it doesn't fit their agenda. For example, many Far Left Atheists have a problem with the term Atheist Jew, no matter how much I explain that a Jew is a Jew by religion and/or ethnicity. I even go further stating anti-semites generally don't care if a Jew believes in God or not, he hate the Jewish culture/ethnicity. I always add, "did Hitler care if a Jew believed in God or not before he murdered them?"
And they still don't get it. They still don't understand my stance that anti-semitism or potential anti-semitism anywhere in the world, any time, justifies Israel's existence, because it is now a refuge for Jews to go. Ironically, the Far Left with their ignorance, and lack of facts, and lack of understanding reality, actually justify a need for Israel because if it they were in charge, there wouldn't be a Jew alive and the masses would be Dhimmis.
Here is an excerpt from a great article from 2004 by Richard Baehr:
Why does the Left hate Israel?
I believe there are several reasons:
1. It is an easy way to express one’s hatred for America.
2. Israel is viewed as an outpost of colonialism , and an active practitioner of it.
3. Israel is a western nation, and hence can be judged by the left. Israel is not protected by cultural relativism, as the Arabs are.
4. Leftist Christian churches can escape any lingering guilt about the Holocaust, by turning Israel into a villain. Some leftist churches hate Israel because they think this will help protect their members in the holy land- in other words they feel threatened.
5. Ferocious Muslim hatred of Israel and the Jews reinforces the natural cowardice of many on the left who go along with the Muslims to stay out of their line of fire.
6. Jewish leftists are prominent in the anti-Israel movement. This opens the floodgates for everybody else.
7. Israel is attacked because the secular left is appalled by the influence of religious settlers and their biblical connections to the land of Israel, and by the support for Israel by evangelical Christians, and Christian Zionists.
1. Hatred of America
The most basic reason as suggested already is that those who hate America, also hate those whom America supports, of which Israel is exhibit A. For Al Qaeda, there is the great Satan, America, and the little Satan, Israel. Since 9/11, Al Qaeda has made the focus of its hatred for the great Satan, the great Satan’s support for the little Satan. In Europe there are a much larger number of hardcore leftists than we have in the United States. Score one for America, I think. Two percent of the population vote for the Green Party here, 10% or more do so in European countries. While many think the Greens are primarily an environmental movement, the party platform in every country in which they are a factor, including the US, is replete with harsh attacks on Israel. In many European countries, the Greens are part of a left of center governing coalition, which helps explain why there is so little sympathy for Israel in Europe.
Why do the Greens hate Israel? The Greens hate the western consumer society in which they live, they hate corporations and capitalism, and they hate globalization. America is the great Satan for the Greens – the killer of Kyoto, the maker of genetically modified foods, the exporter of McDonald’s, Disney, Hollywood trash and Starbucks. So the Greens are leftist by definition. And economic leftists have an anti-American world view which tends to make them reflexively pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel. This hatred of America, which spills over into anti-Israel venom, is, as mentioned earlier, also quite common on the college campuses in America.
2. Colonialism
Along with the hatred for America, comes a world view about what America and its Western allies represent. In short, the western capitalist societies are believed to be colonialists. While the European empires disbanded half a century ago in most cases, the left believes that colonialism is still evident in the economic relations of the western countries with the third world- in the exploitation of their economies. Globalization has become the catchphrase to describe how the west gets rich off of the backs of the poor countries and their people. Hence, a critical slogan of the anti-war effort in Iraq was No War for Oil. Why do western nations go to war? To steal the resources of the Third World One might wonder about what resources we were fighting for in Afghanistan, but consistency has never been a requirement for a leftist world view. Israel in the mind of the left is a colonialist creation. The Zionists were given a country to settle where other people already lived. Then the western nations tried to expunge their guilt for the Holocaust (which most leftists will tell you was a bad thing, though hardly unique in the long history of western colonialist genocide) by agreeing to partition Palestine and formally create one Jewish majority state and one Arab majority state.
After 1967, the left’s job became easier in attacking Israel, since Israel became a very juicy target. By absorbing millions of Palestinians in the west bank and Gaza, Israel became an occupier. By creating settlements, Israel showed the left its desire to permanently dominate the Palestinians. With the collapse of the Soviet Union, the Eastern European satellite nations gained their freedom. So for the left, Israel has become the most glaring example of a western society oppressing indigenous peoples.
Now of course the left never became too agitated over the Soviet Union and their system of satellite nations. After all, the economic philosophy of communism had a lot of appeal for many on the left, even after many decades of proof that neither the Soviet Union, nor China, nor any other communist countries had created economic or political systems that had much to so with any noble visions about workers paradises that leftist philosophers might have gleaned from the writing of Karl Marx. Today’s economic explosion in China has, of course, come through the Communist party’s capitulation to capitalism. But the left did not criticize China’s now permanent occupation and annexation of Tibet, nor the movement of many Chinese into Tibet to create a Chinese majority there, nor the Soviets’ movement of hundreds of thousands of Russians into the Baltic nations of Latvia, Lithuania, or Estonia after World War II, so as to diminish the percentage of the native stock in those countries. Jewish settlers are perhaps 10% of the population of the West Bank. So no-one could seriously suggest that the settlements were an attempt to create a Jewish majority in the area. Instead, stories are circulated about nefarious Israeli plans to move the Palestinian population out of these areas, and make them Arab free, in other words- ethnic cleansing, one of the left’s favorite charges.
The charge that Israel has plans to move the Palestinians out is almost amusing, since it is the reverse that is true: the Palestinians demand and the left wholeheartedly endorses the call for making the west bank Judenrein [all Jewish settlers out], yet also demands that Israel accept the Palestinian right of return, and absorb 4 million displaced Palestinians, 95% of whom are descendants of original refugees, and have never set foot within pre-67 Israel. One might ask how these people are returning to anything that is theirs or that they know, but why complicate things?
3. Moral Relativism
There is another perhaps more important reason why Israel is singled out. Objective observers might look at Israeli society, and while noting all its obvious problems, would also recognize its vigorous free press, its system of justice, its democratic form of government, its willingness to absorb immigrants of different skin color and national origin to create a new society, its great tolerance for diversity, the role of women in society. Such observers might conclude that Israel compares quite favorably to the authoritarian nations surrounding it. But Israel will always be judged by a different standard from its neighbors. The reason for this is that Israel is not only viewed as a western creation, but a western nation, and its neighbors are not.
With the west, anything short of perfection is intolerable, because for the left perfection is the goal. With the third world countries, the left expects nothing (and for the most part gets nothing). When Hutus used machetes to slaughter Tutsis in Rwanda in 1993 – almost a million in four months – the left reserved its criticism for western nations for their inability or unwillingness to intervene. But as regards the ethnic slaughter, the left’s attitude was more or less paternalistic: what do you expect of these natives? I do not remember reading any criticism of the Hutus, or their culture, or their practicing majority rule in such an unsavory way. Of course, had the West militarily intervened, the left would have criticized the countries that sent troops for attacks that killed innocent civilians.
The reason for this hypocrisy I think is the triumph in the academy, and among many in the journalistic profession and the intelligentsia of many western nations, of the noxious notion of moral and especially cultural relativism. This is especially true as regards the left’s attitudes towards the behavior of non-western third world people. This is the triumph of the late Edward Said, the distinguished man of letters, and Professor at Columbia University. Said was a professor, but also the photographed rock thrower on the Israeli Lebanese border (thereby presumably perfecting the body and the mind). Said of course was also the man who fabricated his entire personal history, claiming for half a century to be a dispossessed Palestinian, when in fact he was a member of a wealthy Egyptian family, and neither he nor his family suffered any expulsion from Palestine. But why mess up a good story that combines the personal with a historical narrative that one is fabricating in both cases? Of course Columbia University took no action against Professor Said for either his violent act, or his fraudulent history.
Said wrote a watershed book, Orientalism, arguing that the west could not judge the Eastern world, because it did not understand it, and never could. This is the diversity of separation. We can’t judge what we don’t know, and more importantly can never know. Hence, no universal standard of justice or judgment can ever apply. What may be judged bad or inferior here (say religious intolerance) might be an important feature to hold together a different kind of society, where the role of religion in society is different from ours, and transcends the very notion of nation state.
But Said of course went further. He not only wished to defend the Third World from attacks from the West that many of these third world states were intolerant, bad societies. He attacked the West for its intellectual imperialism, for daring to believe that western philosophy and religion could provide a framework for judging other societies and for our trying to make the rest of the world in our image, which of course we believe is superior: a cultural arrogance. The West he argued, judges the rest of the world inferior for not measuring up. So Western attempts to criticize Arab countries for their intolerance of non-Muslims is a form of colonialism. It is not hard to understand how this kind of argument would have massive appeal among the refugees of the sixties now dominating the faculties of most American colleges and universities. 4. Christian Holocaust Guilt
There is also a religious dimension to the left’s hatred of Israel. Some of this I think represents the attitude prevalent in Christian churches to show sympathy for the perceived underdog: in this case the Palestinians. This support for the underdog is a big part of the leftist ideology – the teenage rock throwers combating the Apache helicopters and tanks of the occupying army. But I think there is something deeper, and less savory to the preference of the Christian left for the Palestinians over Israel. The Jews, in the view of the Christian left, have been waving the bloody sheet of the Holocaust for over 50 years. And the Christian left is tired of hearing about it.
They think that Israel has gotten a free pass for too long, because the Holocaust prevents Israel’s critics from attacking it, for fear of being labeled as anti-Semites with no historical memory. For years, the criticism of Israel in Germany, in particular, has been more muted than in other parts of Europe, for this very reason. But in the last year, even this sensitivity evaporated. This Christian coldness to Israel is a factor in the liberal or high churches in America – the Presbyterians, Episcopalians, Lutherans, Quakers, and all the other mainstays of the National Council of Churches, the good friends of Fidel Castro, and the group that pressured the Clinton administration to send Elian Gonzalez back to Cuba. Absolution for failure to intervene to prevent the Holocaust, or for complicity in its having occurred, can be wiped away by accusing Israel (the Jewish surrogate) of all kinds of high crimes and by using the same language of the Holocaust: ethnic cleansing, genocide, brutal occupation, starvation, human rights violations, to describe Israeli behavior today.
There is also one other factor for the problem of the Christian churches with Israel, and that is fear. The number of Christians in the holy land has been declining, and at an accelerating rate, since Muslims assumed more control over Lebanon, and the Palestinians assumed control over much of the West Bank after Oslo. The Christian churches in the Palestinian territories and Jerusalem have little to fear from Israel, and much to fear from the Arabs. Just as European governments have become more pro-Palestinian as their Arab population has grown, so Christian churches have become more pro-Palestinian to try to appease the Arabs who control the future of the Christian churches in the Holy Land.
5. Cowardice and Group Think
It is difficult to miss the virtual unanimity within the left on the subject of the Middle East. There is little visible political courage on the left to take contrary views to those held by most others in the movement. The left, much more than the right, seems to need group reinforcement. If there is aggressive anti-Israel sentiment from the chorus on the left, those who are not as passionate about the issue, find it easier to join the chorus, than stand aside. On the campuses, there is another problem: Muslim students are fiercely hostile to Israel. Confronted with this aggressive hostility to Israel, even many Jewish students recede, rather than confront it. So there is no effective counterweight.
It took a physical attack against a small group of Jewish students at San Francisco State University last year, and the action of a single professor who witnessed it and described what happened in a widely circulated email, to finally alert many in the Jewish community to how desperate things were getting for Jewish students at many colleges in the face of this anti-Israel venom. The hard core left on campus, both faculty and students, are happy to make common cause with Muslim students and show their solidarity, particularly since a new issue for the left, since 9/11 concerns protecting the civil rights of Muslims and Arabs in this country. Jewish students are also resented by other minority groups on campus because of their perceived hostility to affirmative action. Minority students have therefore become active enthusiasts of the Palestinian cause on many campuses- a solidarity action in the face of perceived common enemies.
There is a distinction between being pro-Palestinian and anti-Israel. Those who hate Israel prefer to say they are for Palestinian self-determination and freedom. This sounds better than claiming that you hate Israel. Of course, were Israel not to exist in the Middle East, the last thing the Palestinians would have is self-determination, and freedom. Why would the Palestinians have what does not exist in any of the other 21 Arab countries? But the left is happy to demand a free, democratic Palestine- all of it of course, not just the West Bank and Gaza, but Israel too, after a right of return brings 4 million refugees into Israel to create a majority Palestinian state.
Those who support the Palestinians are also reluctant to attack the methods the Palestinians choose to use to win their freedom. So while lip service may be paid to a perfunctory condemnation of certain suicide bombing attacks, there are always root causes- the occupation, and settlements, and discrimination. There can be no conduct by the favored group- in this case the Palestinians, that can be judged bad in its own right, for that might serve to muddy the waters on the moral valence between the two sides of the conflict. In some circles, the violence is even romanticized, just as Che Guevara and Ho Chi Minh were heroes to the left in the 60s.
6. Jews Who Hate Israel
The passion with which the left hates Israel is also related to the fact that the left contains many Jewish haters of Israel. When Noam Chomsky, and Norman Finkelstein are the thought leaders of the movement to deny Israel’s legitimacy, and moral standing, this gives cover to those who hate Israel for perhaps baser motives- raw anti-Semitism for instance. Israel’s universities are full of professors who detest Israel and Zionism, such as Ilan Pappe, and major Israeli newspapers such as Haaretz employ Jewish pro-Palestinian writers such as Gideon Levy and Amira Hess. Many Jewish anti-Zionists in this country get their guidance from Israelis in various left wing groups, such as Jeff Halper, who are actively working to destroy the Jewish state.
For a long time, the left has argued that Jews need only fear the right – the fascists, the Christian crusaders, the neo-Nazi hate groups. Certainly there are lunatics on the right who are a danger not only to Jews but to a free society. But today I think there are many more Jew haters and Israel haters on the left than the right. It is wrong of course to generalize and equate anti-Israel views with anti-Semitism. One can be critical of Israel, and one can certainly be critical of specific Israeli policies, such as settlements, without being a Jew hater. On the issue of settlements, almost half the Israeli population thinks that many of them were a bad idea. But when Israel is singled out, as the left does, and held to account for things for which no other country is judged negatively, then something more is going on. Why is Israel the subject of 40% of all critical UN resolutions? Is Israel responsible for 40% of what is wrong in the world?
I have been to several of the left wing Israel hate fests. They are scary. There is real passion in the air. There is something about Israel that gets the juices going. Anti-Semitism is a part of it. There are a lot of people who are envious of Jews, on the left as well as the right. Patrick Buchanan thinks Jews have hijacked the conservative movement. But on the left, particularly in the academy, and in journalism, I am certain there is professional envy of the many Jewish faces and what better way to get even, and get back for sometimes losing the competitive battle, than by picking on the Jewish state as a surrogate. Leftist Jews sometimes lead the assault against Israel in these venues, thereby giving the attacks, whatever their reason, greater moral authority. Few Jews will stand up for Israel in these environments, because of the great pressure on the left to conform to the group think in the institutions they control.
7. Hatred of Religion
Finally, there is the conflict between the religious beliefs the left associates with the state of Israel, and the secular humanistic values of the left. The anti-Zionists in Israel are foolish enough to believe that a secular democratic bi-national state of Palestine would afford them the same liberties they enjoy today. The leftists in Israel and abroad seek an end to nationality, and other antiquated creations, and the building of mankind. How exactly they would deal with jihadist Islam and aggressive Wahhabism, we don’t know. The left has its own religion- it just doesn’t require going to church. Reading the New York Times over coffee will do, except on high holy days, when you also must read the New York Review of Books, the Nation, and the collected works of Paul Krugman. The left also despises Israel because it associates its policies in the territories with the behavior of religious Jews, the “right wing zealots,” as they prefer to call them. Just as leftists hate the Republican Party in America, because they believe that it is controlled by corporations (bad) and Christian fundamentalists (very bad), the left believes that Israel’s behavior is bad, because it is controlled by people who are “irrational” religious believers.
All this talk by the settlers about the biblical ties to Judea and Samaria, is foreign to the ears of those who believe that everything in this world should be decided through reason, and can be negotiated by lawyers, and international organizations. It is ironic of course, that Israel’s so-called religious zealots will likely be much less a factor in preventing a settlement to the Middle East conflict, than the religious exclusionists on the Arab side who have always detested, and wanted to expunge the presence of a non-Muslim state in their midst. But for the left, strong religious views in a Western country are those to be attacked, not those of third world people. For a Western county should know better than to allow itself to be controlled or influenced by religious people. There is a place for religion (a very private sphere for the few on the left who pay lip service to being a member of a church), and there is reason for everything else. The left basically detests religious people and religions of the west (particularly the Catholic church for its views on abortion), but is neutral about third world religions and believers, for which they are not able or willing to judge, but rather must protect against our cultural biases against them.
The support for Israel by Christian conservatives and evangelicals is also a source of great resentment by the left. While the fringe right may believe that the Jews control the world’s banks, the left fears that Christian conservatives control the Republican Party, which right now controls the Presidency and maintains a small majority in both houses of Congress. If Christian conservatives are on one side of an issue, the left has to be on the other side. The friends of your enemies are also your enemies. It is impossible for the left to accept that there can be any common ground between themselves and religious conservatives. Sadly, there are many Jews who have been unable to welcome the passionate support for Israel that comes from the Christian conservatives, because of their disagreements with them on social issues, which I daresay are much less important issues for Jews than the survival of the state of Israel.
Conclusion
The evidence I believe is clear today that Israel faces far greater threats from the left than the right. The left is reflexively anti-Israel and has established important beachheads in significant American institutions- academia, the media, and the old line Protestant “high” churches, as well as in the very seats of government power in many Western European countries, and their intelligentsia. It is not surprising that Israel seems unable to get a fair shake from college professors, the BBC, Reuters, NPR, or liberal churches. Being anti-Israel has become part of their religion.
I do hope the Lefy intellectuals who read my blog read this and actually try to understand it.
April 19, 2006
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April 18, 2006
ALEXGATOR1: PORTRAIT OF AN ANTI-SEMITIC ATHEIST
Possible picture of the Joooo obsessed assmonkey named Alex.
Ok, I made my Atheist case for Israel. Another blogger, Meme Escape really liked it and linked my post on her blog(she has lived in Israel and her fascinating story is available on her blog). In her comment section she stated: "Take a look at Nogod.com. It’s the friggin’ American Atheists official blog and there’s a thread about the I/P conflict that is little more than Jew/Israeli bashing. It’s sad that atheists – who pride themselves on evidence and critical thinking – bit the bait hook, line and sinker."
This didn't shock me, but I went over to investigate and sure enough, the rhetoric was flying.
But my focus is on one imbecile over there ALEXGATOR1. I had him pegged from his first post as a Jew obsessed twerp.
Here are some of his comments on a story about Israel warning about a new axis of terror:
"Is there any way to stop this from happening?"
"Yeah, the Zionist jews can get the fuck out of Palestine. If I lived under a racist apartheid system where human rights violations of the worst kind were part of my everyday life I might go nuts and start blowing people up too.
I don't approve of what the terrorist did but I can imagine what it must be like to live under these conditions and this level of utter frustration and extreme circumstances can make people resort to extreme tactics.
Alex."
Yep, he is a real thinking man's man that Alex is he is.
"What really bothers me is that the American media is si blatantly pro israel and never really shows the palestinian childrens bodies riddled with IDF bullets or the old Palestinian women being evicted from their homes just before the israeli bulldozers raze her home to the ground. The alternative media in the USA and the British media (BBC, Sky News, The Times) take a more neutral israeli stance and report the jewish atrocities towards the arabs which is why Europeans have a more balanced and realistic idea of what the conflict is all about. This has the ADL wringing it's hands about the new wave of "anti-semitism" in Europe which is in fact just a normal response to the crimes of israel.
Alex."
Notice how this rhetorical retard capitalizes Palestinian, American, British, and Europeans, but doesn't capitalize Jewish or Israel. Must be have failed English or he just doesn't like Jews.
"The bottom line is that the unrest in the Middle East is all about a faith based country established by a land grab entrenched in the idea of jewish supremacy and specialness. There will never be peace in the Middle East until the Palestinians have their own state but of course the zionist jews and xians will fight this tooth and claw to support their greed and superstitious interests. Religion will be the cause of WWIII and the USA and the UK will be right there to defend poor little victimized israel. I for one don't want to see the world blown up because a small group of people have an arrogant sense of supernatural entitelment to a patch of shitty desert real estate.
Alex."
Aww, poor Alex doesn't like the Israelis because of the Joooooooooooooooooooooos.
"Lya,
Yes israel is evil and I have spent a lot of time educating myself about the conflict both in university and on my own so please don't assume that I don't want to learn. If I formed my opinions by being spoon fed what the American press reported then I would hate "them muz-lem terr'ists who blow up the Holy Land". What else but evil could you call a government who treats the Palestinians the way that israel does? Second class citizenship, inability to own property, to marry israeli citizens, to vote, and restriction of movement not to mention the fact that the IDF routinley murders innocent Palestinian children who wander into sensitive areas or raze to the ground the homes and orchards and groves (livelihood) of Palestinians? "Israel" is one of the worst abusers of human rights and the israeli lobby has too much influence over US foreign policy. Why do you think we went to war in Iraq? It had nothing to do with spreading democracy and everything to do with securing oil and israeli security concerns. This is not conspiracy theory it is fact for anyone to see which has recently been given support by Harvard's JFK School of Government (http://ksgnotes1.harvard.edu/Research/wpaper.nsf/rwp/RWP06-011) Israelis are no better than Nazis.
Alex.
"
Alex, why don't you just say that you hate kikes. I know you want to. Why are you being such a coward.
Atheist Jew "Alex, you are a retard. Plain and simple"
"Can you say "argumentum ad hominem"?
I am just someone who sees through the lies and exaggerations of the zionists, both jew and xian, and doesn't bow down at the altar of holocaust fundamentalism. Jews are not entitled to inflict misery on the Palestinians just becasue jews have suffered historically. Two wrongs does not a right make my friend.
Alex."
Arguing ad hominen? But wait, didn't you just call Israelis Nazis? Or was that your clone. Oh yes, and nice rhetoric. Where did you get your education? David Duke U?
This one is a classic, Alex is asking me how I can be an Atheist Jew, but he is accusing me of using my "Jewish specialness," anti-semites are so friggen retarded:
"How can you be a jew and an atheist at the same time anyway? On your own website you claim that anyone whose mother is jewish or who converts is a jew. Why does the former make one a jew? religious tradition? if so then as an atheist I would think that that would cancel out your jewishness. If my mother was Irish and catholic does that make me a catholic or just Irish even if I'm an atheist? Can I be a muslim-atheist? or a baptist-atheist? its an oxymoron.
I have asked many people the following question but so far no one has been able to tell me why being a jew is both a religion and an ethnicity when it doesn't work this way for anyone else. Just another instance of jewishness specialness? I'm really curious and so far I have not received a secular answer that satisfies me.
"
I called him an anti-semite, and instead of owning up to it, this was his cowardly predictable reply:
"So predictable atheist jew. Throwing around the term anti-semite at anyone who dares criticize israel or israeli policy. Well my kosher friend it doesn't work on me becasue as I told you I do not bow down to the pressure or the proganda of the holocaust industry or holocaust fundamentalism. I don't buy into the story of how the poor jews have been so oppressed and hated throughout history. So what? Join the fucking club. Almost any group of humans has been the target of a holocaust or genocide at one time or another and I refuse to give jewish suffering more importance than anyone elses. Jews are not special. Jews are not chosen. Jews are not above criticism. Jews are the same as everyone else except maybe for an unending sense of god given arrogance.
Take your sense of self importance and child like whining somewhere else where people care or pay attention-like maybe the ADL website.
Alex."
OK, and one more thing, I did a quick internet search of his ID along with the word Jew and found this gem on a David Irving thread:
"No it wouldn't make it any less horrible but it would expose the historical lies perpetuated by those who wish to maximize israeli support and gain the most sympathy for jews by proposing that six million died instead of the more probable figure of just under a million. Even one dead because of racial hate is wrong but that doesn't make it right to distort history, does it? My point is that historical free inquiry is being suppressed in the name of European hate laws which is just wrong in a supposed free society.
Alex."
Where did the 5 million Jews go oh great historian Alex?
"They all immigrated to israel or North America. I never disputed that six million jews were *missing* from pre WWII Europe but absence doesn't mean dead.
Alex."
What a retarded MAROON. He was probably dumped by a 12 year old Jewish girl when he was 14 and now he dreams about Jews. LMAO, too funny.
Alex, doesn't hate Jews, he just wants Jews wiped off the planet:
Zindlerlist about 9/11(another poster said):"don't forget this whole thing is because of our Israeli-occupied government. if the USA had a government that used reason instead of Zionism or Jew Supremacy as a guide to foreign policy, the 9/11 attacks would not have taken place. it is time for American Atheists to begin speaking out more against judaism, zionists and israel."
"ZindlersList is right on the mark with his comments about the Arab Islamic world's hatred of the West, and the USA and UK in particular, being based on support for the appalling apartheid Zionist policies regarding Palestinians living in "Israel". Zionist Jews and End Time Chrisitians tell the world that Muslims "hate our freedom and way of life" but this is just bullshit for the masses who don't have even a basic grasp of what the entire Palestinian and Jewish conflict is really about: the illeagle occupation of Palestinian lands by foreign Jews which is aided by American money and military might.
Once Israel ceases to exist the world will be a much more peacful place."
This was September 11th 2005. He was still capitalizing Israel, Jews and Zionists back then. Maybe he is Zindlerlist too. I wouldn't put it past the proven coward.
But in all seriousness, it is Atheists like this that really bother me. They throw facts out the door just so that they can hate. It just goes to show that there are pathetic Atheists in the world too.
Update: Our Alex is gay (not that there's anything wrong with that):
Comment from: alexgator1 [Member]
PMSwift,
I too am a gay atheist (in the South!) and for too long gay people have been demonized, opressed, beaten, killed, and generally made to be fucking miserable by religious people and like you I make no apologies in attacking their mythology. Yes, I'm angry and I never pass up an oppourtunity to point out the fallacy of religion or argue with religious people about how incredibly ignorant and self delusional they are and I really could care less if this hurts someones feelings. Fuck the religious.
Alex.
Ok, now I have to change my opinion of him. It wasn't a 12 year old Jewish girl who jilted him when he was 14, but a 12 year old Jewish boy. All the pieces are falling together. Talk about one really screwed up dude. Of all the major religions, Jews have been probably the most tolerant towards gays. He is from the South, so his hatred of Jews might have to do with anti-semitic parents. He should probably seek counselling, if he isn't already.
Blogger Commits Heinous Crime
Yahoo profile picture of a child murderer.
Check this out at The Atheist Mama via Pharyngula. There is a link to his blog. Look at it before it is taken down. This sick basturd was apparently off his meds.
'Updated: 10:21 a.m. ET April 17, 2006
PURCELL, Okla. - The man accused of killing a 10-year-old neighbor girl for an elaborate plan to eat human flesh joked about cannibalism on his online diary, discussed the effects of not taking his anti-depression medication and mentioned “dangerously weird” fantasies.
All he wanted in life, Kevin Ray Underwood wrote in his blog, was “to be able to live like a normal person.”
People who knew Underwood described him Sunday as a quiet, “boring” and seemingly trustworthy young man. His mother who lived across town called him a “wonderful boy.”
The 26-year-old grocery store stocker was arrested Friday. Investigators searched his apartment after he aroused their suspicions at a checkpoint, and found a large plastic tub in a bedroom closet. According to a police affidavit, he confessed that he killed Jamie Rose Bolin, telling FBI agents: “Go ahead and arrest me. She is in there. I chopped her up.”
Jamie’s unclothed body was inside the tub, along with a towel used to soak up blood, officials said. Police said that, while there were deep saw marks on the girl’s neck, she had not been dismembered.
Elaborate plan
“Regarding a potential motive,” Purcell Police Chief David Tompkins said Saturday, “this appears to have been part of a plan to kidnap a person, rape them, torture them, kill them, cut off their head, drain the body of blood, rape the corpse, eat the corpse then dispose of the organs and bones.”
Investigators found meat tenderizer and barbecue skewers that he planned to use on the body, McClain County District Attorney Tim Kuykendall said in this small community 40 miles south of Oklahoma City.
Underwood, who is to be formally charged with first-degree murder Monday, lived alone in an apartment downstairs from the one where Jamie lived with her father.
Authorities believe Underwood killed the girl Wednesday, when she disappeared after going to a library, by beating and smothering her.
Underwood’s family was shocked.'
Excerpts from his blog can be found at The Insomnia Report as well.
Here is what a Yahoo search of his Yahoo ID yields.
Here is some insight on his faith:
From: subspecies23@aol.com (SubSpecies23)
"My parents think/thought that I'm a/an Christian.
and most of my friends presume I'm a/an agnostic. Actually I hardly have any
friends, all the friends I do have know I'm a SubGenius. Most of my coworkers
are afraid of me, they seem to think I'm the spawn of Satan.
(Of course I don't really believe in "Bob".
Secretly I'm kind of a/an fill-in-the-blank.)"
This message board makes him appear as normal as anyone.
But in February 2002 he posted this:
From: subspecies23@aol.comsucks (Rev. Underwood)
I got to thinking yesterday, I wonder if people themselves are contributing to
global warming. I mean, you'd think with several billion people on the planet
all that combined body heat would eventually raise the temperature a little,
not much though, but maybe a couple of degrees. My solution to Global Warming?
Kill Everyone. That's my solution for everything though. There are too many
people on this planet, we need more death. Anything that kills people is fine
with me. 2000 something people dead in the WTC? Good. No one I know was
there, so why should I care? We need a few more bombings and natural
disasters.
Here he admits to being a 23 year old virgin. That was 3 years ago.
What a sicko he is, to do what he did. If he is an Atheist, he didn't write much about it from what I've seen.
I'm thankful I didn't make his blogroll.
Check this out at The Atheist Mama via Pharyngula. There is a link to his blog. Look at it before it is taken down. This sick basturd was apparently off his meds.
'Updated: 10:21 a.m. ET April 17, 2006
PURCELL, Okla. - The man accused of killing a 10-year-old neighbor girl for an elaborate plan to eat human flesh joked about cannibalism on his online diary, discussed the effects of not taking his anti-depression medication and mentioned “dangerously weird” fantasies.
All he wanted in life, Kevin Ray Underwood wrote in his blog, was “to be able to live like a normal person.”
People who knew Underwood described him Sunday as a quiet, “boring” and seemingly trustworthy young man. His mother who lived across town called him a “wonderful boy.”
The 26-year-old grocery store stocker was arrested Friday. Investigators searched his apartment after he aroused their suspicions at a checkpoint, and found a large plastic tub in a bedroom closet. According to a police affidavit, he confessed that he killed Jamie Rose Bolin, telling FBI agents: “Go ahead and arrest me. She is in there. I chopped her up.”
Jamie’s unclothed body was inside the tub, along with a towel used to soak up blood, officials said. Police said that, while there were deep saw marks on the girl’s neck, she had not been dismembered.
Elaborate plan
“Regarding a potential motive,” Purcell Police Chief David Tompkins said Saturday, “this appears to have been part of a plan to kidnap a person, rape them, torture them, kill them, cut off their head, drain the body of blood, rape the corpse, eat the corpse then dispose of the organs and bones.”
Investigators found meat tenderizer and barbecue skewers that he planned to use on the body, McClain County District Attorney Tim Kuykendall said in this small community 40 miles south of Oklahoma City.
Underwood, who is to be formally charged with first-degree murder Monday, lived alone in an apartment downstairs from the one where Jamie lived with her father.
Authorities believe Underwood killed the girl Wednesday, when she disappeared after going to a library, by beating and smothering her.
Underwood’s family was shocked.'
Excerpts from his blog can be found at The Insomnia Report as well.
Here is what a Yahoo search of his Yahoo ID yields.
Here is some insight on his faith:
From: subspecies23@aol.com (SubSpecies23)
"My parents think/thought that I'm a/an Christian.
and most of my friends presume I'm a/an agnostic. Actually I hardly have any
friends, all the friends I do have know I'm a SubGenius. Most of my coworkers
are afraid of me, they seem to think I'm the spawn of Satan.
(Of course I don't really believe in "Bob".
Secretly I'm kind of a/an fill-in-the-blank.)"
This message board makes him appear as normal as anyone.
But in February 2002 he posted this:
From: subspecies23@aol.comsucks (Rev. Underwood)
I got to thinking yesterday, I wonder if people themselves are contributing to
global warming. I mean, you'd think with several billion people on the planet
all that combined body heat would eventually raise the temperature a little,
not much though, but maybe a couple of degrees. My solution to Global Warming?
Kill Everyone. That's my solution for everything though. There are too many
people on this planet, we need more death. Anything that kills people is fine
with me. 2000 something people dead in the WTC? Good. No one I know was
there, so why should I care? We need a few more bombings and natural
disasters.
Here he admits to being a 23 year old virgin. That was 3 years ago.
What a sicko he is, to do what he did. If he is an Atheist, he didn't write much about it from what I've seen.
I'm thankful I didn't make his blogroll.
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